Chance me! 3.3 cGPA; 3.4 B2/L2; 174 LSAT

[jo2hab]

Yes my gpa is trash and I don't really have a good excuse for it (other than double majoring in 'difficult' subjects but I don't think that's a valid excuse). I'm hoping my LSAT score will carry me somewhere. ECs are meh, was a finalist in an economics conference and worked an internship + mild part time work throughout. Hoping to get in somewhere in Ontario, but I'm not ruling out other provinces.

Edited October 28, 2021 by jo2hab

[VitalGiraffe]

Same boat as you (slightly lower gpa) but I do have an access claim. I'm applying to American schools as well and you should too.

[NowOrNever]

19 hours ago, jo2hab said:

Yes my gpa is trash and I don't really have a good excuse for it (other than double majoring in 'difficult' subjects but I don't think that's a valid excuse). I'm hoping my LSAT score will carry me somewhere. ECs are meh, was a finalist in an economics conference and worked an internship + mild part time work throughout. Hoping to get in somewhere in Ontario, but I'm not ruling out other provinces.

Calculate you GPA after drops for UBC.

You should be in there.

You have a good chance to Osgoode as well.

[Kobe]

11 hours ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Same boat as you (slightly lower gpa) but I do have an access claim. I'm applying to American schools as well and you should too.

I second this you could very well get rejected in Ontario but your LSAT should get you into a t14 with decent money. 

[PapaPetrovitch]

With an LSAT like that with a decent personal statement + LORs I imagine they'd have no issues getting into a few, if not most, Ontario schools. GPA is important but a 174 can more than make up the difference for that I feel. 

[LordBONSAI]

174 is around 99%, IIRC. That qualifies you to be a strong candidate for at least some decent Canadian schools even if your GPA is below median. Your odds at top US schools are even higher since they generally put more weight on LSAT. 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/550e564be4b04f84a0e28a9f/t/5d102ba45664b20001fed00f/1561340838426/Law+Admissions+FAQ.pdf 

Check the above link out. I think it may help you.

Edited October 30, 2021 by LordBONSAI

[jo2hab]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll look into US law schools but tbh I want to practice in Canada and I've heard bad things about going to foreign schools. I'm wondering about my chances at Ryerson. If I take my best 20 courses my GPA jumps to around a 3.7 (80% avg) which might make me competitive there. Apparently they're pretty hard to predict though.

[VitalGiraffe]

8 hours ago, jo2hab said:

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll look into US law schools but tbh I want to practice in Canada and I've heard bad things about going to foreign schools. I'm wondering about my chances at Ryerson. If I take my best 20 courses my GPA jumps to around a 3.7 (80% avg) which might make me competitive there. Apparently they're pretty hard to predict though.

You and I can probably get into some half decent American schools. The bad things you've heard about are Australian and British 'Canadian law schools'. The higher ranked American schools we could get into often have higher salaries than Canadian schools after graduation. If you still want to come back you can do a one-year LLM or other equivalency courses, which would also only take a year. I might work in America for a couple of years if I get into a good enough school there.

Edited October 30, 2021 by VitalGiraffe

[Kobe]

9 hours ago, jo2hab said:

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll look into US law schools but tbh I want to practice in Canada and I've heard bad things about going to foreign schools. I'm wondering about my chances at Ryerson. If I take my best 20 courses my GPA jumps to around a 3.7 (80% avg) which might make me competitive there. Apparently they're pretty hard to predict though.

There's a huge difference between going to a t14 and going to Bond/Leeds. I am not sure what your career goals are but my understanding is you could easily attend a top American school do a couple years of big law at 200K salary and lateral back to Canada. You may very well get into great Canadian schools, I was just pointing out this is an option.

I'm sure you would have a decent chance everywhere in Ontario with that score, it's kind of unpredictable but I would apply everywhere including UofT.  

[Rashabon]

I think you guys need a reality check about T14. What suggests to you that they overlook terrible grades just for an LSAT? According to 2020 stats nobody with a GPA as bad as OP got into a T14:

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/

I’m not saying it’s impossible but this idea of “oh yeah T14 is readily attainable” is a stretch, as is getting a good scholarship to those schools.

[BirdsArentReal]

8 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

I think you guys need a reality check about T14. What suggests to you that they overlook terrible grades just for an LSAT? According to 2020 stats nobody with a GPA as bad as OP got into a T14:

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/

I’m not saying it’s impossible but this idea of “oh yeah T14 is readily attainable” is a stretch, as is getting a good scholarship to those schools.

GPA conversions through LSAC benefit Canadian Applicants a lot of the time. My GPA converted by +0.4 points on LSAC which is quite considerable. But you are right for the most part, even the term "splitting" requires you to balance out a 25th percentile GPA with a 75th+ percentile LSAT.

[jo2hab]

3 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I think you guys need a reality check about T14. What suggests to you that they overlook terrible grades just for an LSAT? According to 2020 stats nobody with a GPA as bad as OP got into a T14:

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/

I’m not saying it’s impossible but this idea of “oh yeah T14 is readily attainable” is a stretch, as is getting a good scholarship to those schools.

Do you have any similar stats for Canadian schools? Everything I've come across for stats is on medians/means, so I'm not sure if my low GPA will basically get my application sent straight to the shredder here.

[Kobe]

6 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I think you guys need a reality check about T14. What suggests to you that they overlook terrible grades just for an LSAT? According to 2020 stats nobody with a GPA as bad as OP got into a T14:

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/

I’m not saying it’s impossible but this idea of “oh yeah T14 is readily attainable” is a stretch, as is getting a good scholarship to those schools.

I mean look at LSData, the numbers speak for themselves if OP applies broadly at t14 they are likely to get in with at least some money. 

3.3-3.5 gpa and 172-175 LSAT

https://www.lsd.law/search/xxmGc

You speak with such authority but are consistently wrong about anything that relates to US schools. You told me before scholarships are conditional at T30 US schools for example. If they applied broadly in T14 there's a very good chance to be accepted and most get at least some merit aid. I am sure you know the Canadian system well but please don't patronize me with words like reality check when you are the misinformed one. 

Also I just brought this to their attention so they have options. I am not advocating they go, just to know the option exists. 

 

Last Edit :  I just looked at the link @Rashabon sent. His confusion is the GPA low is actually the 25th percentile. It's common practice to hide splitters below the 25th and can be balanced by accepting someone above the 75th GPA. Also OP according to your own link is above the median at every t14 and above the 75th at most. They would be valuable from a rankings perspective. LSAT score is weighted more heavily than GPA in USNews rankings. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Kobe

[FrankyBets]

10 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I think you guys need a reality check about T14. What suggests to you that they overlook terrible grades just for an LSAT? According to 2020 stats nobody with a GPA as bad as OP got into a T14:

https://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/

I’m not saying it’s impossible but this idea of “oh yeah T14 is readily attainable” is a stretch, as is getting a good scholarship to those schools.

Literally got a half scholarship to UMichigan in 2020 with 3.4 173. You have no idea what you are talking about. 

Maybe don't give advice when you are clueless about the topic?

[VitalGiraffe]

12 hours ago, BirdsArentReal said:

GPA conversions through LSAC benefit Canadian Applicants a lot of the time. My GPA converted by +0.4 points on LSAC which is quite considerable. But you are right for the most part, even the term "splitting" requires you to balance out a 25th percentile GPA with a 75th+ percentile LSAT.

Really? I hope this this happens for me. I heard the opposite often happens. LSAC rewards consistent grades, mine fluctuated.

Edited October 31, 2021 by VitalGiraffe

[Kobe]

16 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Really? I hope this this happens for me. I heard the opposite often happens. LSAC rewards consistent grades, mine fluctuated.

It does benefit Canadians, you get 4.33 for an A+ and even A- is still 4.0 vs 3.7 on OLSAS. Mine converted from OLSAS 3.1 to 3.44 on LSAC

I'll also add I doubt yours moved more than mine, I have Ds and Cs on my transcript from many years ago, oh if I could punch my old self in the face I would

Edited October 31, 2021 by Kobe

[PapaPetrovitch]

11 hours ago, Kobe said:

oh if I could punch my old self in the face I would

I feel that... 

[VitalGiraffe]

17 hours ago, Kobe said:

It does benefit Canadians, you get 4.33 for an A+ and even A- is still 4.0 vs 3.7 on OLSAS. Mine converted from OLSAS 3.1 to 3.44 on LSAC

I'll also add I doubt yours moved more than mine, I have Ds and Cs on my transcript from many years ago, oh if I could punch my old self in the face I would

My undergraduate university uses a 4.0 scale, not 4.3.

[Kobe]

52 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

My undergraduate university uses a 4.0 scale, not 4.3.

Mine as well, that's where the advantage is. They converted my A+'s as 4.33. Even though my school uses 4.0 scale