UofA vs Osgoode

[nuttycoffee22]

I’m hoping to work in Calgary and I’ve gotten offers for UofA and Osgoode. Not sure which I should pick 🤷🏼‍♀️ Help!

[Gamgee]

If you're set on working in Calgary, then UofA is probably the better option (2nd to maybe only UofC). Being at UofA will let you travel to Calgary if needed and you'll learn law focused on Alberta.

[GGrievous]

Just curious why this is a question if you’re sure you want to work in AB. If you’re open to working elsewhere I would choose Oz. 

[nuttycoffee22]

2 hours ago, Barry said:

Just curious why this is a question if you’re sure you want to work in AB. If you’re open to working elsewhere I would choose Oz. 

I’m asking this question because I can’t decide between the two… They’re both great schools and I wanted to hear about people’s experiences at them. 

[TheMidnightOil]

Disclaimer: I'm just an incoming 1L like you.

Going off of conventional advice for a situation like this, I think that the UofA would be the obvious choice if you're planning on practicing in Calgary.

[Toad]

Osgoode is around $26,000 a year in tuition. The University of Alberta after the tuition increase is still only around $15,000. If the tuition increase does not apply to you because you're starting before the increase comes into effect then the University of Alberta's tuition is around $11,000-$12,000.

Edmonton also has much cheaper rent than Toronto and you will also save money by not having to fly as much.

It seems like going to Osgoode would result in an extra $40,000-$70,000 in debt. If you're planning on working in Calgary I do not see this as being a tough decision just based on the cost difference alone (unless you're wealthy/from a wealthy family)

Edited June 12, 2021 by Toad

[GGrievous]

15 hours ago, nuttycoffee22 said:

I’m asking this question because I can’t decide between the two… They’re both great schools and I wanted to hear about people’s experiences at them. 

Yeah I wasn't trying to be a dick it's just the only criteria you mentioned was where you want to work. I have heard that Oz has the largest number of clinics which is a huge pro to me. One in particular that I personally would kill to participate in. For my goals I feel my potential to succeed would be maximized there which would be worth the higher price tag, but that's a personal choice. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Barry

[ZineZ]

On 6/11/2021 at 11:34 PM, Toad said:

Osgoode is around $26,000 a year in tuition. The University of Alberta after the tuition increase is still only around $15,000. If the tuition increase does not apply to you because you're starting before the increase comes into effect then the University of Alberta's tuition is around $11,000-$12,000.

Edmonton also has much cheaper rent than Toronto and you will also save money by not having to fly as much.

It seems like going to Osgoode would result in an extra $40,000-$70,000 in debt. If you're planning on working in Calgary I do not see this as being a tough decision just based on the cost difference alone (unless you're wealthy/from a wealthy family)

The other part worth mentioning is that it would likely be much easier to network with Albertan firms while being at UofA than it would be at Osgoode. If OP was unsure about where they'd like to work, I'd suggest Osgoode just because of giw positive my experience was at that school.

However, in light of OP's wishes to work out in AB - being closer to the firms and workplaces they're targeting would be a better move. 

 

[GGrievous]

10 hours ago, ZineZ said:

I'd suggest Osgoode just because of giw positive my experience was at that school.

Curious about this for my own decision, but how important is networking over the experience? I've heard it's quite easy to go from certain schools (Oz included), to pretty much any province. I guess in-person interviews would be a bit more difficult, but are they even necessary in the post-covid world? I've also heard there is more flexibility to be an average student and still fare well when it comes to landing jobs at certain schools (Oz included again), is there any truth to that?

Edited June 13, 2021 by Barry

[QMT20]

51 minutes ago, Barry said:

Curious about this for my own decision, but how important is networking over the experience? I've heard it's quite easy to go from certain schools (Oz included), to pretty much any province. I guess in-person interviews would be a bit more difficult, but are they even necessary in the post-covid world? I've also heard there is more flexibility to be an average student and still fare well when it comes to landing jobs at certain schools (Oz included again), is there any truth to that?

I can't comment on Oz or Alberta specifically, but with one exception everyone I knew at Queen's who applied to the Vancouver and Calgary recruits were able to land at large national firms there, including some average-slightly above average students. If your objective is just being able to get a summer/articling position, I think the value of going to a school in the same city (or same market) as the firms you're applying to is a bit overstated. 

However, you'll definitely receive less support from your school's career office if you apply outside of your school's home market, and the recruitment process will have to be more self-directed. For example, Queen's has dedicated firm tours, practitioners from firms teaching courses, career office hosted pre-recruitment networking events with representatives from all the firms, and OCIs that are actually pretty much "on campus" for employers in Toronto and Ottawa. There's no comparable support from the school if you want to apply to Vancouver or Calgary and you pretty much need to go down to Toronto for those firms' Ontario OCIs, meet lawyers during post-OCI dinners, and do all the leg work to get exposure yourself. Your experience applying to Toronto from U of A or to Calgary from Osgoode would likely be similar to that of my classmates who applied out of province. 

Additionally, you won't have as many opportunities to learn the law in the province you want to practice. The value of this is also debatable since a lot of people think you learn on the job but sometimes it's good to have a bit of background on how the OSA works if you want to be a securities lawyer in Toronto. You won't have the chance to learn about the corresponding legislation in Alberta or BC through courses at an Ontario law school.

Edited June 13, 2021 by QMT20

[Mal]

 

On 6/11/2021 at 4:42 PM, nuttycoffee22 said:

I’m asking this question because I can’t decide between the two… They’re both great schools and I wanted to hear about people’s experiences at them. 

I'm probably the only person around that has law degrees from both these schools. My impression is that Alberta was more collegial and close-knit due to it not being a commuter school and size. Osgoode students might be a little better overall and it has fantastic course selection. Toronto >>>>>>>> Edmonton though. But the cost difference is gigantic.

Personally I'd go to Osgoode if money were no object and Alberta if it is even remotely a concern. 

[SYANG09]

Interesting topic. I'd like to put in my two cents regarding how these two schools are viewed from an international perspective. University-wise, UAlberta is better known than YorkU most likely because there're fewer schools with "big" names in western Canada apart from UBC but Ontario has a lot more internationally renowned unis. While Osgoode is nationally recognized as a great school, both YorkU and its law school are much LESS heard of in my country. That difference virtually has no bearing on your prospective career if you're only interested in practicing within Canada (you indicated you wish to work in Calgary). However, school rankings matter a lot when big laws are hiring law students from foreign schools (true in where I live). Indeed, the good quality of legal education from both schools should not be obscured by some bland rankings, but many companies do rely on them to select future associates or legal assistants from foreign schools they know little about. When it comes to hiring common law students, the target school list from the office I interned for is as follows:  HYS>other T14/Oxbridge>LSE/UCL>T20/UofT/Mcgill>T30/UBC/some other UK schools>Top aussie/HK/singapore schools. As for schools outside the list, they refer to USNEWS and QS world university rankings and set the bar at top 300. I think QS or Times has a separate ranking for legal studies but that's a lesser criterion. Not saying this applies across the board nor do I endorse such practice, but it might come to the assistance of whoever trying to seek jobs overseas.

Edited July 19, 2021 by SYANG09

[CleanHands]

15 minutes ago, SYANG09 said:

Interesting topic. I'd like to put in my two cents regarding how these two schools are viewed from an international perspective. University-wise, UAlberta is better known than YorkU most likely because there're fewer schools with "big" names in western Canada apart from UBC but Ontario has a lot more internationally renowned unis. While Osgoode is nationally recognized as a great school, both YorkU and its law school are much LESS heard of in my country. That difference virtually has no bearing on your prospective career if you're only interested in practicing within Canada (you indicated you wish to work in Calgary). 

So you acknowledge that your post is completely irrelevant to the thread and the OP's specific objectives, but you decided to chime in regardless?

[SYANG09]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

So you acknowledge that your post is completely irrelevant to the thread and the OP's specific objectives, but you decided to chime in regardless?

Yeah, views are my own but I didn't mean to disrupt the OP's discussion anyway. Sorry if it looks so. Just found it intriguing to make a choice between these two schools. If someone happens to face similar situations, I hope my perspective may shed some light. 🙂 

Edited July 19, 2021 by SYANG09

[СлаваУкраїні]

5 hours ago, SYANG09 said:

While Osgoode is nationally recognized as a great school, both YorkU and its law school are much LESS heard of in my country.

This sentence confuses me. I thought Osgoode was YorkU’s law school. Am I mistaken?

[SYANG09]

55 minutes ago, Salazar said:

This sentence confuses me. I thought Osgoode was YorkU’s law school. Am I mistaken?

Yes, Osgoode is the same as YorkU's law school. To clarify, I meant to say YorkU (the uni in general) and Osgoode (YorkU's law in particular) in that sentence.

Edited July 19, 2021 by SYANG09

[BlockedQuebecois]

Anybody who thinks international big law firms are more likely to hire a U of A law school grad than an Osgoode Grad is out to lunch. 

[LMP]

2 hours ago, SYANG09 said:

Yes, Osgoode is the same as YorkU's law school. To clarify, I meant to say YorkU (the uni in general) and Osgoode (YorkU's law in particular) in that sentence.

Is this a riddle? 

 

8 hours ago, SYANG09 said:

Interesting topic. I'd like to put in my two cents regarding how these two schools are viewed from an international perspective. University-wise, UAlberta is better known than YorkU most likely because there're fewer schools with "big" names in western Canada apart from UBC but Ontario has a lot more internationally renowned unis. While Osgoode is nationally recognized as a great school, both YorkU and its law school are much LESS heard of in my country. That difference virtually has no bearing on your prospective career if you're only interested in practicing within Canada (you indicated you wish to work in Calgary). However, school rankings matter a lot when big laws are hiring law students from foreign schools (true in where I live). Indeed, the good quality of legal education from both schools should not be obscured by some bland rankings, but many companies do rely on them to select future associates or legal assistants from foreign schools they know little about. When it comes to hiring common law students, the target school list from the office I interned for is as follows:  HYS>other T14/Oxbridge>LSE/UCL>T20/UofT/Mcgill>T30/UBC/some other UK schools>Top aussie/HK/singapore schools. As for schools outside the list, they refer to USNEWS and QS world university rankings and set the bar at top 300. I think QS or Times has a separate ranking for legal studies but that's a lesser criterion. Not saying this applies across the board nor do I endorse such practice, but it might come to the assistance of whoever trying to seek jobs overseas.

I don't know about Osgoode not having an international reputation. You know they used to offer a dual degree with NYU right? A T-14. It isn't exactly a hard metric but I think it should indicate that the name isn't mud abroad. Osgoode is also one of the few schools in Canada (other than UofT and McGill) that places in New York big law. 

[SYANG09]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Anybody who thinks international big law firms are more likely to hire a U of A law school grad than an Osgoode Grad is out to lunch. 

Osgoode is by all means a top school imo in terms of network and chance at BigLaws, probably only second to UofT. However, in my (limited) experience regarding recruitment at a foreign law firm (not a BigLaw), Osgoode doesn't have a significant edge over other Canadian schools like UBC or UofT does. Yes, I'd be more than thrilled to be accepted into Osgoode but despite the prestige of Osgoode as a proper law school, the HR of the firm I once interned for didn't think it highly due to its affiliation with YorkU which is not ranked high globally. I know this is silly but that's how it works here. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by SYANG09

[BlockedQuebecois]

2 minutes ago, SYANG09 said:

Osgoode is by all means a top school imo and in terms of network and chance at BigLaws, probably only second to UofT. However, in my (limited) experience regarding recruitment at a foreign law firm (not a BigLaw), Osgoode doesn't have a significant edge over other Canadian schools like UBC or UofT does. Yes, I'd be more than thrilled to be accepted into Osgoode but the despite the prestige of Osgoode as a law school, the HR of the firm I once interned for didn't think it highly due to its affiliation with YorkU which is not ranked high globally. I know this is silly but that's how it works here. 

Your limited experience is demonstrably wrong. 

[SYANG09]

1 hour ago, LMP said:

I don't know about Osgoode not having an international reputation. You know they used to offer a dual degree with NYU right? A T-14. It isn't exactly a hard metric but I think it should indicate that the name isn't mud abroad. Osgoode is also one of the few schools in Canada (other than UofT and McGill) that places in New York big law. 

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about U.S. in that post. Obviously American firms know much better about Canadian schools. My hometown is in Taiwan and people have a ridiculous cult for U.K./U.S. schools when it comes to studying law. Apart from a handful of hrs, people almost know nothing about non-British and non-American schools, so they rely heavily on rankings made by USNEWS and QS.

Edited July 19, 2021 by SYANG09

[Disbarred]

4 minutes ago, SYANG09 said:

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about U.S. in that post. Obviously American firms know much better about Canadian schools. My hometown is in Taiwan and people have a ridiculous cult for U.K./U.S. schools when it comes to studying law. Apart from a handful of hrs, people almost know nothing non-British and non-American schools, so they rely heavily on rankings made by USNEWS and QS.

I think the issue is that you’re speaking to a non-existent audience, while giving poor advice to potential students who will apply to more common international destinations (I.e, New York). I would be shocked if there is a single student on here planning on moving to Taiwan to practice law after attending a Canadian law school

[SYANG09]

5 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Your limited experience is demonstrably wrong. 

Fair enough, but I didn't limit my scope to the int'l biglaws which apparently have much more knowledge about law schools in Canada. That was just a general statement on an average hr's impression regarding YorkU. Again, not saying Osgoode is bad anyway but counting it as YorkU's law school does have some negative impact from a outsider's perspective.

[SYANG09]

1 minute ago, Disbarred said:

I think the issue is that you’re speaking to a non-existent audience, while giving poor advice to potential students who will apply to more common international destinations (I.e, New York). I would be shocked if there is a single student on here planning on moving to Taiwan to practice law after attending a Canadian law school

Thanks for replying. I admit that my advice has very limited influence on most applicants and they are free to disregard it anyway. What I intended was to bring an outsider's pov that some might find intriguing. I don't want to cause any disturbance. Have a good day.

[LMP]

24 minutes ago, SYANG09 said:

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about U.S. in that post. Obviously American firms know much better about Canadian schools. My hometown is in Taiwan and people have a ridiculous cult for U.K./U.S. schools when it comes to studying law. Apart from a handful of hrs, people almost know nothing about non-British and non-American schools, so they rely heavily on rankings made by USNEWS and QS.

Ah, I understand. Yes, I've been to Taiwan a number of times and have certainly found what you say to be true. I was thinking more of the US.