McGill vs University of Toronto

[Ferris Bueller]

Hey!

I've had the luck to be accepted at both McGill and the University of Toronto. I'm having some trouble deciding between the two, and I'm wondering if anyone could offer me any advice.

I'm from Toronto originally but I completed my undergrad in Montreal (Philosophy major, French minor). My goal at this point is to be employed in Toronto, and I'm interested in getting into civil and/or commercial litigation.

It seems preferable, on the one hand, to study in the city where you want to work. However, I expect that attending UofT will cost me an additional $50,000 overall versus McGill, all of which would be borrowed on credit. The 'Career Statistics' published by UofT are really impressive, but unfortunately McGill doen't provide any comparable breakdown of employment stats. McGill of course has the advantage of the dual degrees in civil and common law, as well as a bilingual legal education. McGill also offers a 'Major Concentration' in Commercial Negotiation & Dispute Resolution, but I'm not entirely sure how meaingful that designation would be when in comes to hiring potential.

If anyone has any advice or recommendations or personal experiences to share, I would be extremely grateful. Thanks so much!

[Deadpool]

Commercial and civil litigation are broad practice areas and are not a difficult goal to reach from most law schools, including McGill. I have heard from a number of people that McGill has a corporate focus and many of its graduates go on to work in the Montreal big law market. That is my impression from what I see on firm websites and LinkedIn as well. If by any chance you do get unlucky in the 2L recruit and do not land a summer placement in Toronto, then you can work in another big law market like Montreal and lateral to Toronto once you have some experience. I have seen people do this from even small and mid-sized firms, legal aid, government, etc.

U of T does place better than McGill in New York, but you can work in Canadian big law and lateral to the US and other international markets quite easily these days. 

The one advantage McGill has over U of T is its clerkship placement rates. I think McGill places better for this than any other school in Canada. Though, I believe U of T places better at the Court of Appeal for Ontario. Most top tier litigation firms like to see appellate and SCC clerkships in their candidates. For that reason alone, and to have access to a wider range of jobs and not just big law alone (i.e. government), I might lean towards McGill. The cheaper tuition helps too so you do not have all that debt hanging over you. 

[PzabbytheLawyer]

33 minutes ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Hey!

I've had the luck to be accepted at both McGill and the University of Toronto. I'm having some trouble deciding between the two, and I'm wondering if anyone could offer me any advice.

I'm from Toronto originally but I completed my undergrad in Montreal (Philosophy major, French minor). My goal at this point is to be employed in Toronto, and I'm interested in getting into civil and/or commercial litigation.

It seems preferable, on the one hand, to study in the city where you want to work. However, I expect that attending UofT will cost me an additional $50,000 overall versus McGill, all of which would be borrowed on credit. The 'Career Statistics' published by UofT are really impressive, but unfortunately McGill doen't provide any comparable breakdown of employment stats. McGill of course has the advantage of the dual degrees in civil and common law, as well as a bilingual legal education. McGill also offers a 'Major Concentration' in Commercial Negotiation & Dispute Resolution, but I'm not entirely sure how meaingful that designation would be when in comes to hiring potential.

If anyone has any advice or recommendations or personal experiences to share, I would be extremely grateful. Thanks so much!

McGill alum here. Practising litigation lawyer in Toronto in a firm some call a Bay Street litigation firm. Had the option to work in Biglaw in Montreal and turned it down.

I know of people who got into U of T and went to McGill. The debt difference really is significant - especially if you can manage to finish in 3 years instead of 3.5.

I will say this:

If you are dead set on doing the most complex commercial litigation you can get hired into, in Toronto, I would go to U of T. 50k is a lot of money, but in that field, it doesn't kill you the way it would if you were an aspiring, say, criminal defence lawyer.

If you are open to working in other cities in the beginning, such as NY, Ottawa, Vancouver (note, I am not including Montreal here for a reason), and want to save the money, I would choose McGill. With doing multiple recruits, I suspect you will eventually land that type of job from McGill, if Toronto doesn't work out.

You need a 3.0+ at McGill to get hired in the OCI recruit in Toronto. To get hired at some of the elite shops, you likely need a 3.15/3.2+. I'm basing this off of both anecdotal information, and statistics I've seen over the years. These grades are achievable. But you need to go in aware that your course selection in 2L, on a 3.5 year track, matters a lot more than you think it will, since the curve jumps with people loading their courses with term papers and non-law classes, and seminars curved to a "high B+".

If you are interested in high level litigation, and would like to be a trial lawyer, I would generally not start out in Montreal. There is the perception (unfairly, in my view, now having practised in litigation for a little while, and in speaking with my Montreal litigator friends) that the systems are just too different to transfer over easily. I don't think that's true, but the perception of an employer is all that matters. But ottawa, vancouver, etc would all be fine to start in and move back to Toronto eventually.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by PzabbytheLawyer

[Ferris Bueller]

Thanks very much Deadpool and PzabbytheLawyer I really appreciate your thoughts.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Ferris Bueller