Feeling discouraged about LSAT & GPA

[moderndayellewoods444]

Hi Everyone, 

I had applied to all ON schools this Nov (aside from Lakehead), and am feeling really discouraged because of my cGPA and LSAT scores. I wrote both the Aug & Nov LSAT and scored 157, and just found out I scored 155 on Jan and am extremely disappointed in myself, since I was PTing low-mid 160s consistently since October. Unfortunately, I have been dealing with some health issues that began just before apps were due and have persisted, and actually had to go to the hospital the week before my Jan test for them, but unfortunately I wasn't able to discuss it in my PS, given the timing of it all. My current cGPA is a 3.2x, with my L2 being around 3.7x (without counting this past semester in which I got a 3.9 overll). I've got scads of volunteer work and research, and some fairly good references/PS, but I can't help from feeling like law school is out of reach because of my low LSAT and low cGPA. 

Are the odds really out of my favour because of my low cGPA and LSAT? Although my GPA has increased significantly over my undergrad, will my LSAT score drop significantly impact my chances?

Any advice is appreciated 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by moderndayellewoods444

[Greenjuice]

Hi! I can't really say much in terms of chances because I'm a first time applicant myself.

However, I hope to offer some comfort in saying that my CGPA is also a 3.2! So you're not alone in feeling intimidated by the stats of others. I also have chronic health conditions that make it difficult to perform consistently within academics. But that does not make me an unqualified or unintelligent applicant. The same goes for you, your L2 looks really good and it seems that you have many ECs/references.

All we can do is hope for the best and remember that there are always more opportunities to reapply at a later time.

Message me if you want to chat. Happy to listen always.

[CheeseToast]

If your cGPA and L2 are OLSAS converted then you might have a chance somewhere like Windsor or Ryerson but I think its pretty unlikely. I'd say that with that LSAT your chances are effectively nil anywhere else. There's no shame in taking a gap year before you get in.

[legalhistorystudent]

I understand how you feel - I scored a lot better in November and then just totally messed up in January and wasn't able to discuss in PS (went from 158 to now 152 and not really sure how that happened lol). I would like to hear anyone's insight. I am in the same boat as you as far as softs go just with a slightly higher GPA but applying to other schools not just ON schools. I am staying positive and I don't think the odds are out of your favour or mine. I don't think that the score drop will impact you just because most schools looked at higher score anyways and there will be the assumption you had a bad test day. It's really hard when we are impacted by extenuating factors and don't have the chance to explain (for me it was medication change related and I have also been quite unwell so I understand!) 

Please don't lose hope! I truly believe that we all still have a chance and none of us really understand how admissions work! 

[theroaringbadger]

157 and 3.8 L2 will give you a chance at Dal and  pretty good one at access in Ottawa, queens, and UWO - people with Osgoode were accepted with 158s. So don’t stress. 

[LegalLoophole]

you might have a shot at Windsor if your ECAs demonstrate some commitment to access to justice. just my 2 cents.

[QueensDenning]

 

7 minutes ago, theroaringbadger said:

157 and 3.8 L2 will give you a chance at Dal and  pretty good one at access in Ottawa, queens, and UWO - people with Osgoode were accepted with 158s. So don’t stress. 

I don’t agree. All the schools you listed are a long shot. There may be some people in this range that get in, but the vast majority don’t. 
 

nothing wrong with taking a gap year to increase that LSAT. 

[theroaringbadger]

Just now, QueensDenning said:

 

I don’t agree. All the schools you listed are a long shot. There may be some people in this range that get in, but the vast majority don’t. 
 

nothing wrong with taking a gap year to increase that LSAT. 

In access people in that range I’ve seen especially at Ottawa. 

[QueensDenning]

7 minutes ago, theroaringbadger said:

In access people in that range I’ve seen especially at Ottawa. 

Idk, Ottawa looks at CGPA and most competitive applicants have 3.7+ CGPA. Nothing is impossible, but it's better to be realistic. Im not saying no one in this range gets admitted. But giving false hope don't help anyone, and with OP's stats the fact is that, in terms of the schools you mentioned (especially Queen's, Western, Os) the chances are not good. It's realistic to expect not to get into those schools this cycle. For all of the 3.2X/157LSAT candidates that get into those schools with those stats, there are 10+ that do not. I have a close friend who applied last year with a 3.6ish CGPA and a 163 LSAT that didn't get into one ON school. 

Edit: most access candidates have stats only slightly below the median. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by QueensDenning

[CleanHands]

54 minutes ago, moderndayellewoods444 said:

Are the odds really out of my favour because of my low cGPA and LSAT?

Yes.

This is not to say that admission somewhere is impossible, but temper your expectations.

54 minutes ago, moderndayellewoods444 said:

Although my GPA has increased significantly over my undergrad, will my LSAT score drop significantly impact my chances?

The good news is that your second LSAT score won't hurt you anywhere in Ontario. It just won't help you. The bad news it that with a 3.2 CGPA, 3.7 L2, and 157 LSAT, you could have used the help.

Nothing you can really do now for this cycle, so no point ruminating. Just see what happens, be prepared to rewrite the LSAT and reapply, and hope for an admission and accept any offer from a Canadian school that you can get. Good luck.

ETA: Might be cold comfort, but if you don't get an offer this year, an increase of just a few points on your LSAT would make a huge difference. You are basically right on the cusp of being a competitive candidate for several ON schools.

Edited February 2, 2022 by CleanHands

[goodisgood]

Story time:

6 years ago, I had 2.91 or something as my undergrad GPA in an arts program at UofT. Highest LSAT was 161. Predictably didn't get in anywhere, waitlisted at a couple places. Was pretty crushed. I can't say I studied well either!

I decided to apply again for the 2020 cycle to start school in 2021. By then I'd worked in different industries, built up savings, and got way further ahead in other parts of my life, volunteered in an area I had real passion for. I sorted out a lot of issues I had too and ended up with with an LSAT just short of 170 (which I thought was impossible 5 years ago). Got glowing references from my employers, applied Access/Mature, and got into Windsor, Queens, Ottawa (accepted), waitlisted at Osgoode. 

That's a roundabout way of trying to say: everything I thought would be the end wasn't, and if you still feel strongly about this, there are other ways you can achieve it. I know it sucks right now (I was also pretty crushed by my initial failure) but that initial failure doesn't define me, and now I'm in law school and doing better than I ever did in undergrad! 

If you feel strongly about getting in sooner rather than later, I hope you haven't exhausted your LSAT prep materials. If you've been using one prep service, maybe you can try another. At this point that's the only thing you can really change and I think everyone I've spoken with has been able to at least improve their LG section to the point it's near perfect. Consistency there might be what you need for a 160+ which could change things!
 

Edited February 2, 2022 by goodisgood
forgot it was 2022

[VitalGiraffe]

Anecdotally my first LSAT was a 157 and today I received a 178. I'm definitely in the minority of people who make that kind of gain, but it's possible. I also have a much lower GPA than you and have gotten an acceptance in Ontario (my highest LSAT was 170 at the time). DM if you wanna talk

[Pecan Boy]

21 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Anecdotally my first LSAT was a 157 and today I received a 178. I'm definitely in the minority of people who make that kind of gain, but it's possible. I also have a much lower GPA than you and have gotten an acceptance in Ontario (my highest LSAT was 170 at the time). DM if you wanna talk

Out of curiosity, why did you re-write after getting a 170?

[VitalGiraffe]

5 minutes ago, Pecan Boy said:

Out of curiosity, why did you re-write after getting a 170?

I had gotten a 179 on a PT right before the 170 test so I knew I was capable of a high 170s score. My GPA is atrocious so I wanted to do everything I could to make myself a stronger applicant.

[stressedoutlawstudent]

I know one person with a similar LSAT, cGPA and a slightly lower L2 that went to Queens and I think Ottawa as well. In terms of the Queen's acceptance, they got it very late in the cycle.