JD/MBA - Worth it?

[surf2020]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a 1L at Osgoode and I recently got admission into the JD/MBA program. Coming from a business undergrad, they waived all of the core courses and are allowing me to take essentially all electives in my specialization choice. I applied because I would like to open my own law firm in the future, potentially combining aspects of law and business to sort of create a one-stop-shop (ie. real estate lawyer and real estate agent). I was wondering if there is any idea on whether the JD/MBA degree is worth it, and maybe anyone who has done it has any insights.

 

Thank you!!

[togetic]

What are your career goals coming out of law school? I'm assuming you don't want to open your own firm right away.

Edited February 28, 2022 by togetic

[Pendragon]

Since you applied to the MBA and got accepted, I assume you will go ahead with it anyways. Seems a little late now to ask if it is worth it when you've gone through the hassle of applying and getting accepted, no?

But if you already have an undergraduate business degree, you will not get much out of the MBA. If your goal is big law, then your 1L JD grades will be the most important to them. 

If your goal is to open your own firm, then all the MBA will do for you is be three letters after your name. I doubt many clients will care that you have it. 

[VitalGiraffe]

8 hours ago, Pendragon said:

If your goal is big law, then your 1L JD grades will be the most important to them. 

I've heard (and Ultra Vires numbers seem to confirm this) that some of the top law firms only hire 1Ls from JD/MBA programs. Could that not make it worth it considering most get hired back?

[Rashabon]

3 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

I've heard (and Ultra Vires numbers seem to confirm this) that some of the top law firms only hire 1Ls from JD/MBA programs. Could that not make it worth it considering most get hired back?

Which UV are you reading? The only law firm that exclusively hired JD/MBAs was Torys and they don't even participate in the recruit anymore.

[VitalGiraffe]

22 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Which UV are you reading? The only law firm that exclusively hired JD/MBAs was Torys and they don't even participate in the recruit anymore.

Blake, Cassels & Graydon seems to prefer them as well. I've also been told NYC firms almost exclusively hire JD/MBAs when they hire from Canada.

[CleanHands]

3 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Blake, Cassels & Graydon seems to prefer them as well. 

They regularly hire average students in the JD only streams from decent schools during the 2L recruit. Nobody should be doing a JD/MBA for the sake of trying to be more competitive with them specifically (I don't know and don't care if their 1L recruit practices are any different; that's no basis for doing a dual degree).

[ramoj]

9 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Blake, Cassels & Graydon seems to prefer them as well. I've also been told NYC firms almost exclusively hire JD/MBAs when they hire from Canada.

Sorry but this is not true (who told you this? lul). Unless of course you are speaking of non U-Toronto/Osgoode JD/MBA students? UT and Osgoode send plenty of non-JD/MBA and sole JD students to US. McGill too. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by jomar

[Rashabon]

46 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Blake, Cassels & Graydon seems to prefer them as well. I've also been told NYC firms almost exclusively hire JD/MBAs when they hire from Canada.

I don't know that I'd describe 33% as a "preference" per se given the small sample size of 15, and when that number drops to 6/42 when including the 2L recruit alongside the 1Ls.

Also that's not accurate at all for NYC. It's quite the opposite.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Rashabon

[togetic]

2 hours ago, VitalGiraffe said:

I've also been told NYC firms almost exclusively hire JD/MBAs when they hire from Canada.

Agreed w/ everyone that this isn't true, but being JD/MBA does seem to give you a leg up in being hired in NYC and Bay Street recruits if that's what you want, especially if your grades are not as good. See this comment about New York: 

 

[Pendragon]

16 minutes ago, togetic said:

Agreed w/ everyone that this isn't true, but being JD/MBA does seem to give you a leg up in being hired in NYC and Bay Street recruits if that's what you want, especially if your grades are not as good. See this comment about New York: 

 

Yea, it would be helpful if OP told us how they performed in 1L. If they already have good grades, then an MBA is not necessary for the recruits.

[surf2020]

Thanks for the input everyone! I performed quite average last semester and based on how this semester is going I assume it'll be relatively similar. 

I'm not hoping to open my own law firm right away, but I thought some of the courses might be helpful. In undergrad, I took a lot of marketing courses because I thought that was what I wanted to go into (before I changed my mind). I was looking at the course offerings for the MBA program and they have courses in real estate, m&a etc so I thought that might be helpful. I have a general sense of what I'm interested in but I'm not entirely sure which area I would want to end up practicing.

Are there any pros to doing the JD/MBA or is it really just a waste of time/money?

 

[Pendragon]

2 minutes ago, surf2020 said:

Thanks for the input everyone! I performed quite average last semester and based on how this semester is going I assume it'll be relatively similar. 

I'm not hoping to open my own law firm right away, but I thought some of the courses might be helpful. In undergrad, I took a lot of marketing courses because I thought that was what I wanted to go into (before I changed my mind). I was looking at the course offerings for the MBA program and they have courses in real estate, m&a etc so I thought that might be helpful. I have a general sense of what I'm interested in but I'm not entirely sure which area I would want to end up practicing.

Are there any pros to doing the JD/MBA or is it really just a waste of time/money?

 

If money is not an issue and you think it will help with your big law career prospects, go right on ahead. But keep in mind that you can only do your MBA once. A lot of lawyers now return to school to get their MBA and it is usually a different school from where they got their law degree. Schulich MBA is not that good either. How certain are you that you want to use up your MBA slot with the Schulich MBA, as opposed to doing an MBA at Ivey, Rotman, or another brand name school abroad. 

[AHappyLawyer]

1. It'll help you recruit BigLaw, especially with average grades (think 10-12 OCIs with a straight B average). 

2. I don't see any help in opening your own law firm from the MBA. Maybe it'll help market yourself a bit, but seems like the benefits would be marginal. Maybe help you network? Not worth the cost. 

3. The odds of you graduating law school and getting another MBA are low. People only do that to transition into a business career down the line and there's a window for that. 

[parm_789]

Hey, I know this isn't directly related to this topic, but I wanted to ask about eligibility for the JD/MBA. I recently received an acceptance from Osgoode & I plan on accepting. Since MBA rounds are still open, I'm just wondering if I can still apply for the JD/MBA this cycle if my LSAT is in the 81st percentile (or do I have to wait until potential second year entry, which ik is difficult). Is a score in the 85th percentile a strict requirement?

(I don't have a GMAT/GRE score btw)

[Turtles]

3 hours ago, parm_789 said:

Hey, I know this isn't directly related to this topic, but I wanted to ask about eligibility for the JD/MBA. I recently received an acceptance from Osgoode & I plan on accepting. Since MBA rounds are still open, I'm just wondering if I can still apply for the JD/MBA this cycle if my LSAT is in the 81st percentile (or do I have to wait until potential second year entry, which ik is difficult). Is a score in the 85th percentile a strict requirement?

(I don't have a GMAT/GRE score btw)

Reach out to one of the MBA recruiters (there's a sign up form for a general chat). Include a copy of your unofficial transcript. They say the exemption is a function of undergrad grades and LSAT and decisions are made case by case, and so they're the only ones who can give you a reliable answer.

[VitalGiraffe]

Misread the comment. Delete me please.

Edited March 25, 2022 by VitalGiraffe

[Rocky Road]

Hey everyone! This isn't exactly the same as whether the JD/MBA is worth it in general, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on which program to start with (Osgoode first or Schulich).

I did my undergrad in commerce and am entering law school straight from undergrad so I'm familiar with the structure of business courses but do not have a large amount of work experience like a lot of individuals in the joint program likely would. For this reason, the school is recommending that I start at Osgoode and use that extra year to gain some experience. However, a benefit that I see of starting at Schulich is that I could stick with my 1L class for the full three years and graduate with my peers (but I'm not sure how important this really is).

Any advice/personal experience related to this? Thanks in advance!

[Bean2019]

There are pros and cons to both. 

Starting at schulich: it'll feel like doing a 5th year of your undergrad as you will have a bit more familiarity with the topics due to your undergrad. You can also work during the year if you choose to, especially if you want to continue a job from undergrad. You will be able to network with upper years to "prepare" you for 1L and the 1L recruit by building relationships and gathering resources. You will graduate with your 1L cohort and your group of friends. This is also a great time to get involved in MBA extra curriculars as you're not tied down to Osgoode ones yet. 

 

Starting at Osgoode: meet more people as you will be part of two cohorts/1L years. If you choose to apply for the 1L recruit, you will have all of your 1L grades while the rest of the law student will only have 3 1L grades. It's a nice break between 1L and 2L, especially if you found law to be more challenging. 

 

This is what I have observed over the years. Choose what would benefit you best and reach out to upper years to discuss their thoughts/journeys. 

 

[Rashabon]

I went to U of T so can't comment on Osgoode but I don't even think U of T let's you do the JD/MBA other than by JD -> MBA -> Both -> Both for your 4 years of school. I think being able to be part of two cohorts in law school is actually a plus, since that gives you more opportunities for friends and networking and graduating with your original 1L cohort isn't necessary. You can keep in touch and they'll be a year ahead of you so can act as mentors to you down the road.

I also agree you'll have your full 1L grades plus be in the middle of your MBA when you do the 1L recruit, and you get to do law school at a more relaxed pace since I have heard (though can't speak to it myself) that the solo-MBA year is often not difficult for JD candidates.

[Rocky Road]

15 hours ago, Bean2019 said:

There are pros and cons to both. 

Starting at schulich: it'll feel like doing a 5th year of your undergrad as you will have a bit more familiarity with the topics due to your undergrad. You can also work during the year if you choose to, especially if you want to continue a job from undergrad. You will be able to network with upper years to "prepare" you for 1L and the 1L recruit by building relationships and gathering resources. You will graduate with your 1L cohort and your group of friends. This is also a great time to get involved in MBA extra curriculars as you're not tied down to Osgoode ones yet. 

 

Starting at Osgoode: meet more people as you will be part of two cohorts/1L years. If you choose to apply for the 1L recruit, you will have all of your 1L grades while the rest of the law student will only have 3 1L grades. It's a nice break between 1L and 2L, especially if you found law to be more challenging. 

 

This is what I have observed over the years. Choose what would benefit you best and reach out to upper years to discuss their thoughts/journeys. 

 

Thanks, this is super helpful!

15 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I went to U of T so can't comment on Osgoode but I don't even think U of T let's you do the JD/MBA other than by JD -> MBA -> Both -> Both for your 4 years of school. I think being able to be part of two cohorts in law school is actually a plus, since that gives you more opportunities for friends and networking and graduating with your original 1L cohort isn't necessary. You can keep in touch and they'll be a year ahead of you so can act as mentors to you down the road.

I also agree you'll have your full 1L grades plus be in the middle of your MBA when you do the 1L recruit, and you get to do law school at a more relaxed pace since I have heard (though can't speak to it myself) that the solo-MBA year is often not difficult for JD candidates.

Yes, you're right. I think Osgoode is the only school that gives you the option. Thanks for that advice!