TRU vs Ottawa

[arod]

Im in a bit of a predicament. I am unsure of which law school to attend as i have heard a lot of different opinions. I am a BC resident and would like to ultimately practice in BC. A few people have stated that the prestige and reputation should play a factor in my decision. I was hoping to get more input and what my chances are on getting a BC placement while attending the university of ottawa. 

[QueensDenning]

I don't think Ottawa is any more prestigious than TRU. TRU's OCI numbers are a lot better (22 vs. 10) compared with Ottawa. http://ultravires.ca/2021/11/vancouver-2022-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers/

Edited March 4, 2022 by QueensDenning

[Darth Vader]

UOttawa's main benefit over TRU is its public interest placement rates and placement rates in Ontario. This doesn't matter to you as much since you want to work in Vancouver. But how certain are you that you will stay in BC? 

[Fruitdealer]

It should also be noted that looking at straight Vancouver OCI hiring numbers is not necessarily all that informative as a significant number of strong UOttawa students are going to be self selecting out of Vancouver for Toronto and Ottawa OCIs.

[mjslava]

Can you see yourself living in Kamloops for 3+ years? 

[arod]

Thanks for the replies guys. Im close to a 100% that i want to remain in BC long term as i did my undergrad in Ontario and the weather and the vibe just isn't for me. I do have intentions to attempt to transfer to UBC in my 2nd year regardless of the university i attend. Would TRU or Ottawa be better for that? Or is there no advantage to either. I would also like to work the summer after 1st year in Vancouver. Also, i have attempted to find what kind of law TRU specializes in and was unable to find anything specific. If anyone can help me out with that as well. Idm kamloops, the weather is just as bad out in ontario and it would be cheaper and less busy then ontario in my opinion. The move to uni would be easier if i did attend TRU as well.  My main concern was people stating that prestige really matters in the long term. To be fair i mainly hear this opinion from applicants rather then lawyers and current students. Practicing lawyers and professors that i have talked to seem to say that its not a big deal at all as TRU is decently established by now.

[Busta]

I would go to TRU in your situation. If you're planning to switch out to UBC after 1L then the specialization's TRU offers (or don't offer) won't matter at all. Additionally, it might be easier to get higher grades at TRU because class sizes are smaller (I think?), which would make transferring easier. Based on geography alone, it would probably be much simpler to attend TRU if you plan to study in BC. I talked to a TRU grad a couple weeks ago who's currently practicing with a medium size firm in Vancouver and he said that he, nor any of his friends found it difficult to find jobs in Vancouver, and a few of his close friends got jobs with the big firms everyone gawks about (re QueensDennings post above). I don't think "prestige" matters much once you start working. People seem to love comparing schools based on various metrics, and while there is undoubtedly an advantage of attending a school like U of T over TRU, if you're smart, personable, and hard-working, attending TRU won't put you at any significant disadvantage. Granted, I'm not a lawyer or even a law student yet, I'm just interpreting information I've heard from talking to lawyers, law students, and members on this forum. 

I live in Kelowna right now and have frequented Kamloops for various reasons (tournaments, parties, boredom) and think it's a pretty sweet lil city. It's great if you love skiing or just exploring the area, lots of really unique and amazing stuff if you're outdoorsy in the slightest. If the winters in Kamloops are anything like the winters in Kelowna (I'd put my life on it) then they're overrated. We get sporadic dumps of snow and maybe a cold snap where it dips south of -20 for a few days, but other than that they're super manageable. My biggest issue (which might only apply to kelowna) was how dark and grey things get. For like 2 months there's constant cloud cover over the valley and you'll be lucky to see direct sunlight more than twice a week. 

As a last little note (and it's probably not super relevant), I got a bunch of weird looks and comments from friends/parents/teachers when I decided to attend UBC-Okanagan over UBC-V, because UBC-O is seen as a "B" school. Fast forward 4 years and I love it here and don't regret my choice 1 bit. I've made a bunch of great friends & memories, I've grown tremendously as a person, I've been accepted to various law schools, and I've skied more days than I've actually attended campus this semester (45 minute drive to 2 A+ tier mountains? Say less). 

Best of luck. 

[QueensDenning]

2 hours ago, Busta said:

I talked to a TRU grad a couple weeks ago who's currently practicing with a medium size firm in Vancouver and he said that he, nor any of his friends found it difficult to find jobs in Vancouver, and a few of his close friends got jobs with the big firms everyone gawks about (re QueensDennings post above). 

For clarity, the list I posted includes many (mostly) mid-sized firms. 

[NowOrNever]

Post here again:

I did a little search and easily I found that TRU law school graduates landed jobs in the 5 Biggest Canadian Law Firms: 

Borden Ladner Gervais LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/fahmadlaw

Gowling Lafleur Henderson LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nick-james-597789124

Fasken LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/paige-a-mueller

Norton Rose Fulbright LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lou-mcleod-15a2333b

Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/albert-zhang

[Turtles]

1 hour ago, NowOrNever said:

Post here again:

I did a little search and easily I found that TRU law school graduates landed jobs in the 5 Biggest Canadian Law Firms: 

Borden Ladner Gervais LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/fahmadlaw

Gowling Lafleur Henderson LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nick-james-597789124

Fasken LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/paige-a-mueller

Norton Rose Fulbright LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lou-mcleod-15a2333b

Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/albert-zhang

Reminder, just because you found it easily through searching, doesn't mean it was easy for them or that they weren't disadvantaged by their school or that they didn't have to overcompensate with getting a higher class ranking, more experience, or just having better luck than someone who went to a different school.

One of the people you reference was a licensed paralegal by the LSO before law school, at least one made Dean's List for 1L, at least two clerked for BC courts, and your NRF person joined NRF because she had been articling at a local firm that happened to be merging with NRF a year later. Coming into law school, do you really expect to make Dean's List and land a clerkship with so much confidence that you're willing to bet your tuition on it? No, those are rare and such a gamble is foolish? Then it wouldn't be wise to make inferences from the success of a few people who happened to successfully differentiate themselves by top 10% grades, prior legal experience, etc. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Turtles

[QueensDenning]

2 hours ago, NowOrNever said:

Post here again:

I did a little search and easily I found that TRU law school graduates landed jobs in the 5 Biggest Canadian Law Firms: 

Borden Ladner Gervais LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/fahmadlaw

Gowling Lafleur Henderson LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nick-james-597789124

Fasken LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/paige-a-mueller

Norton Rose Fulbright LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lou-mcleod-15a2333b

Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/albert-zhang

@Turtles covered most of what I wanted to say, but you can find grads from pretty much every Canadian law school at the 5 biggest Canadian law firms (or any big firm). That stat in and of itself is meaningless. You will find a lot more grads from a select few schools, however, at each one of those firms. 

[arod]

38 minutes ago, Turtles said:

Reminder, just because you found it easily through searching, doesn't mean it was easy for them or that they weren't disadvantaged by their school or that they didn't have to overcompensate with getting a higher class ranking, more experience, or just having better luck than someone who went to a different school.

One of the people you reference was a licensed paralegal by the LSO before law school, at least one made Dean's List for 1L, at least two clerked for BC courts, and your NRF person joined NRF because she had been articling at a local firm that happened to be merging with NRF a year later. Coming into law school, do you really expect to make Dean's List and land a clerkship with so much confidence that you're willing to bet your tuition on it? No, those are rare and such a gamble is foolish? Then it wouldn't be wise to make inferences from the success of a few people who happened to successfully differentiate themselves by top 10% grades, prior legal experience, etc. 

is your point that i should be picking ottawa over tru?

[Darth Vader]

52 minutes ago, arod said:

is your point that i should be picking ottawa over tru?

You are seriously overthinking this. There are 8 law schools in Ontario so rankings play more of a role to differentiate between the schools. There are 3 law schools in BC. In the Vancouver 2L recruit, 10 Ottawa students out of a class of around 300 got jobs. If your long-term goal is to stay in BC, then you need to know what the job market there looks like. Most people I've seen practice in small and mid-sized firms. There are a few Big law firms as well. There are very few public interest positions. Going to Ottawa or TRU makes little difference when you are applying to small, mid-sized, and large firms in BC. 

[CracklePop]

I might be able to give you some insights, as I was in your shoes a few years ago. I ended up going to TRU so I can expand on some points that have been touched on. To preface, there are a number of factors that you have to consider when making the decision. The amount of weight you put on each factor is entirely up to you.

On the topic of prestige, you have to make a decision on whether it matters to you. There are some big and small firms that really like TRU and hire our students every year. However, there are also some big and small firms that will never hire TRU students. I have first hand experience with both types of firms. This kind of comes with going to a younger school so you just have to be aware of the situation and deal with it.

On the topic of proximity, I think you should go to a school near where you want to work. At TRU, my peers and I had the opportunity to just drive to Vancouver for recruitment purposes (coffee chats, shadowing, interviews, etc). If you go to a school that is out of the province, you would not get as many chances to go to Vancouver. For the last little while, most recruitment activities took place online so travel was not an issue. However, this is something to consider.

As for the quality of education, it is really the same as any of the other law schools. Professors from UBC and UVic teach at TRU and TRU professors have moved to other law schools across Canada. The class size in 1L is usually around 50 students. Some of the upper year courses have smaller class sizes because not that many students are interested in the subject. Just because you go to TRU does not mean that your grades will be higher because the school still marks on a curve. TRU does not have any specializations like other schools. You just take courses that you are interested in. I was interested in business law so I took courses that catered to my interest.

The OCI process is what the OCI process is. I was lucky enough to land an OCI job at a big firm. I personally know some of the people whose LinkedIn profiles were posted above. TRU students do fairly well in the OCI process and the school provides a lot of resources to help us succeed. If you go to another province, the resources will likely be catered to a different market.

If you have any other questions about TRU, feel free to message me directly.