Montreal - DOJ legal excellence program questions

[Vavilov]

Wondering if there's anyone that did the legal excellence program in Montreal or elsewhere. I'm curious to know approximately how long it took to go through the LP-00 stage. The website shows that there are 17 steps in the LP-00 position, which I understand to be the equivalent of articling. Are these 17 steps condensed into the six month articling period and then you're moved up to LP-01 at the end of that? 

General advice/thoughts on the legal excellence program also appreciated!

[TheDevilIKnow]

I believe that the normal practice would be to remain at the same step of LP-00 for the duration of articling, but then move to LP-01 as soon as your articles are complete (with LP-01 being the bottom level for actual counsel). The collective agreement says that the lock-step pay interval for most positions (including LP-00), are 12 months long. So you would not normally have a change during articling, because it should take less than 12 months.

Where it gets really confusing is "ok, but what interval do I START at?" Althoguh this seems like it should be an easy question, it doesn't appear to be addressed by the collective agreement. However, if you look at the actual posted salaries for articling positions, you will see that different cities slot into different steps on the pay grid, as follows:

Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown - $41,565 - Step 1

Halifax - $45,566 - Step 3

Edmonton, Winnipeg, Saskatoon - $45,566 - Step 3

Montreal, Calgary & Ottawa - Gatineau - $49,949 - Step 5

Nunavut - $60,021 - Step 9

NWT & Yukon - $45,566 - Step 3

Vancouver - $62,843 - Step 10

Toronto - $72,126 - Step 13

London - $47,707 - Step 4

Seem like an odd way to set things up, but perhaps this (geographic diversity) is the real reason for the existence of all these steps.

Once you get to LP-01, all the geographical differences disappear and everyon is plodding along the same steps. As I understand it, everyone would be expected to go through all 8 steps of LP-01 until they become an LP-02. But I think progress beyond LP-02 then becomes individualized or "optional".

Thanks for providing a distraction from my paper for a bit. 😉

[Vavilov]

3 hours ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

I believe that the normal practice would be to remain at the same step of LP-00 for the duration of articling, but then move to LP-01 as soon as your articles are complete (with LP-01 being the bottom level for actual counsel). The collective agreement says that the lock-step pay interval for most positions (including LP-00), are 12 months long. So you would not normally have a change during articling, because it should take less than 12 months.

Where it gets really confusing is "ok, but what interval do I START at?" Althoguh this seems like it should be an easy question, it doesn't appear to be addressed by the collective agreement. However, if you look at the actual posted salaries for articling positions, you will see that different cities slot into different steps on the pay grid, as follows:

Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown - $41,565 - Step 1

Halifax - $45,566 - Step 3

Edmonton, Winnipeg, Saskatoon - $45,566 - Step 3

Montreal, Calgary & Ottawa - Gatineau - $49,949 - Step 5

Nunavut - $60,021 - Step 9

NWT & Yukon - $45,566 - Step 3

Vancouver - $62,843 - Step 10

Toronto - $72,126 - Step 13

London - $47,707 - Step 4

Seem like an odd way to set things up, but perhaps this (geographic diversity) is the real reason for the existence of all these steps.

Once you get to LP-01, all the geographical differences disappear and everyon is plodding along the same steps. As I understand it, everyone would be expected to go through all 8 steps of LP-01 until they become an LP-02. But I think progress beyond LP-02 then becomes individualized or "optional".

Thanks for providing a distraction from my paper for a bit. 😉

Thanks for parsing through this. It really wasn't making sense for me. The private/public wage gap is far greater than I imagined.

[lanetann]

@Vavilov A couple of clarifications are in order. First, while the salary progression for lawyers is generally done once per year, lawyers classified as LP-01 are evaluated every 6 months. Under the Department of Justice development program, counsel are expected to go from an LP-01 to an LP-02 in 4 years. Once a Step 1 LP-02, you would then progress to the top of the salary scale based on yearly evaluations. Second, there are two salary scales: one for all locations except Toronto and another separate scale for Toronto positions. 

Overall, as you are probably aware, compensation for public sector is lower, but it is reasonable in my view, especially when considered in relation to other positions in Canada and within the federal bureaucracy.

Anyway, I would recommend looking at the collective agreement for Legal Professionals (LPs) to better understand compensation dynamics for lawyers working for the federal government.

Edited March 20, 2022 by lanetann

[TheDevilIKnow]

Lol. This is what I get for trying to help out with a basic answer: someone creates an account just to quibble with my details.

1 hour ago, lanetann said:

First, while the salary progression for lawyers is generally done once per year, lawyers classified as LP-01 are evaluated every 6 months.

This is why I said that

6 hours ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

 lock-step pay interval for most positions (including LP-00), are 12 months long.

The different salary scales do not take effect until step 6 of LP-02. All steps of LP-01 (and the first 5 steps of LP-02) are the same throughout Canada.

The OP was talking about the beginning of the process.

Lanetann is correct, however, that the Toronto scale differs thereafter (so, starting at 9th year of practice). I can tell you that this is a bit of a sore spot for some senior counsel elsewhere. 😉

Edited March 20, 2022 by TheDevilIKnow