Is it worth it to go to T6 American school and rack up debt or McGill law and emerge debt free?

[Bananaman]

I got into NYU and uChicago with both charging around 65k USD tuition/year after financial aid (includes residence). That would leave me about 190k USD tuition debt at the end of my degree. By contrast, McGill is way cheaper, and with scholarships and government financial aid, I could basically get away with paying nothing in tuition over my entire degree. 

I'm not sure what I want to do after law school, (edit: in the sense that I am unsure which area of law I want to practice in or whether I think big law would be right for me). I don't know how significant the difference really is, and how worth it it would be. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Bananaman

[ramoj]

The part that gets me about this post is "I am not sure what I want to do after law school." So why then are you even going? Excellent admissions options aside, ask yourself why you are going? If you cannot answer this clearly, I would honestly wait, work, and gain more life experiences (mature student here).

NYU and Chicago are good schools. You will have no issues getting into a V25 firm. McGill will also provide you with similar opportunities, both in Canada and the US.

But again, if you don't even know why you are going or what you will be doing after law school, you should wait until you are much clearer on your goals and aspirations.  

[aurora borealis]

I'd choose McGill in this situation - the significantly lower cost of attending will leave many more areas of law open than if you went to a T6 school (if you decide that you want to practice criminal defence, will you be able to or will you need to work in a field that leaves you able to service your debt?). I'd say this especially since you're not sure if big law is right for you.

[helloall]

42 minutes ago, jomar said:

NYU and Chicago are good schools. You will have no issues getting into a V25 firm. McGill will also provide you with similar opportunities, both in Canada and the US.

Frankly, McGill's not even in the same stratosphere as UChicago or NYU in terms of opportunities. Choose McGill only if you're certain you're interested in lower-paying careers in public law. 

[Whist]

You should only choose NYU or UChicago if you know you almost certainly want Biglaw, something that pays akin to that, or if your parents are paying for your degree. If you aren't sure or want literally anything else, choose McGill. The difference in the weight of the debt is astronomical. I'm not sure why you'd potentially be willing to risk $240,000 CAD only to find out you like working in criminal defence. If you do decide you like corporate in the end, McGill can still get you there, though it's true it won't be on the same level of opportunity as the T6.

[CommeCiCommeCa]

I think it also matters on where you want to practice. If your heart is dead set on NYC big law, then yeah, maybe choose one of the US law schools knowing that you're going to have a ton of debt, but at least also knowing that making a NYC big law salary you'll be able to feasibly pay it off. But if you are worried you might find another field of law more interesting, I would choose McGill in a heartbeat. I chose McGill because I knew I would be able to manage my debt so that when I graduated I would never have to choose between a job that interests me that doesn't necessarily pay well, and a job that I hate, but need to take to pay down my debt. That was an incredibly important consideration for me, but I also came into law school knowing I did not want to work in big law, so take that with a grain of salt for your situation as well. 

It's also worth noting that last year McGill sent 10 students to NYC Big Law (and based on the CDO report, this is on par with most previous years as well), so that door wouldn't be completely closed to you. That being said, it would definitely be more of an up-hill battle than from one of the two US schools where there will be a more established alumni network in the States and likely better networking opportunities for recruitment. If you're interested in big law, but don't necessarily need to be in NYC, McGill also does very well in the Montréal big law recruit (how's your French?), and decently in the Toronto big law recruit, so those doors would absolutely be open to you from McGill, at a significantly lower price tag.  

You really need to decide if you want to end up in the States or if you want to end up in Canada. The answer to that question will ultimately help you the most in making your decision in my opinion. 

[Tomatoes]

Are you an American citizen? Some options available at a T6, such as clerking and government jobs, don't really hire internationals.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Tomatoes

[qsizzle]

I'd say it depends on what you want to do after law school. I know you have no idea, but getting a grasp on that will make the choice easier.

If you want to practice in the states, then the US schools are better. If you want to practice in Canada, then McGill with no debt is a way better option IMO.

 

Good luck!

[Twenty]

5 hours ago, helloall said:

Frankly, McGill's not even in the same stratosphere as UChicago or NYU in terms of opportunities. Choose McGill only if you're certain you're interested in lower-paying careers in public law. 

The schools may open doors, but debt limits opportunities. 

In a way, going to McGill may open more opportunities because then OP would feel like they are financially able to pursue a variety of options after law school. Going to UChicago or NYU with that amount of debt, OP basically has to work BigLaw...is that actually "more" opportunity?

I guess OP can work BigLaw, pay off loans, then explore other opportunities, but that's not without risk. I'm sure many people thought they could do this, but end up burning out and leaving the profession entirely or staying in BigLaw for a variety of reasons. It's basically a cliche.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Twenty

[AHappyLawyer]

Do not go to NYU or uChicago unless you are more than 75% sure you want to work in BigLaw for a stint right out of school. They are fantastic Big Law yielding programs, and for top US schools sans scholarship or significant family support, you basically have to take the Big Law route for it to make financial sense. 

[untruecarrier]

6 hours ago, helloall said:

Frankly, McGill's not even in the same stratosphere as UChicago or NYU in terms of opportunities. Choose McGill only if you're certain you're interested in lower-paying careers in public law. 

This is so important and 100% true. Also, NYU Law has a very solid loan repayment plan but you should look into whether it'll cover non-federal loans. https://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/lrap

[Grey]

As someone who went to a Canadian law school, practiced on Bay, and now practices at a V20 firm in the US, I'd say McGill and it's not really close. McGill is well known in the US. Yeah, it's not a T6, but if you have great grades (you'll need good to great grades anyways even if you go to NYU or Chicago) or if you do a stint in Canadian biglaw before lateralling to the US, it's a relatively achievable path into US biglaw. Maybe you don't understand how crushing $200k USD in law school debt is. Think paying $3k/month for 5+ years. Even if you're working in NYC and making $205k as a first year, your take-home is like $10-11k-ish a month. Minus $4k/month easily in rent (I pay more than that in a city that's not NYC or SF - trust me, it sucks), minus $3k in debt service means your disposable income and QOL is probably worse off than if you were in Canada debt free (not to mention if you were in NYC debt free if you went to McGill). There may be good reasons to pick a T6 over a Canadian school, but they aren't financial. 

[Bananaman]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It has been interesting to see the different perspectives here. The way I see it is that the debt for NYU or uChicago over McGill is worth it in the specific circumstance that I pursue a career in American big law, in which case the American schools provide significantly better  opportunities and chances on getting in than McGill. Even still, McGill law grads can still get in, it is just more difficult. As someone who is still unsure whether biglaw is where I would want to go both in terms of location and field and practice of law, I view McGill as the safer and more practical option. 

I will keep talking to people and discussing, but I appreciate all the input here.

6 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

Are you an American citizen? Some options available at a T6, such as clerking and government jobs, don't really hire internationals.

I am not an American citizen. I also do not have access to FAFSA loans. 

 

[Rashabon]

I opted not to go to NYU (and I can't remember my status at Harvard or Columbia, Yale rejected me) and no regrets. I have had innumerable opportunities to jump from Bay to NYC (albeit I went to U of T rather than McGill) but in a hot market, it is not difficult at all to get into NYC big law from a good Canadian firm.

I think you're thinking about this the right way. But I'd say not only consider if you 100% want to go to big law, but keep in mind the worst case scenario. If you don't do as well as you'd like and a big law or similar career isn't even an option, McGill won't have you suffering under crippling debt. Going to NYU and not ending up in big law can be financially ruinous, leaving aside that going to NYU and ending up in NYC big law is still going to be an expensive proposition.

[CheeseToast]

10 hours ago, helloall said:

Frankly, McGill's not even in the same stratosphere as UChicago or NYU in terms of opportunities. Choose McGill only if you're certain you're interested in lower-paying careers in public law. 

What opportunities does uchicago or nyu offer that mcgill doesn’t? Guaranteed US biglaw aside, course.

[Chemistry124]

16 hours ago, Grey said:

you'll need good to great grades anyways even if you go to NYU or Chicago

Go to Mcgill because you don't know what to do and to mortgage your near future is too high of a risk.

Having said that, this is completely incorrect. Absolute bottom of the barrel grads at NYU/Chicago usually still get Biglaw (assuming they are flexible on their choice of practice and geographic constraint aka NYC). Yes they won't be clerking on SCOTUS or working at the ACLU/DoJ, but standard Biglaw is still the norm, especially in this hot market.

[Zarathustra]

I remember reading that close to 85% of NYU graduates (those who end up in private practice) landed in Biglaw.