How does summer performance impact 1st year hireback?

[Catpurrccino]

Hello everyone, thank you in advance for your insight:

I know that if one "does not burn down the building" during their summer, they usually get hired back for articling. But I wonder if one's performance during summer would impact their hireback chances after articling?

I am asking because I am trying to strategise what kind of files to request this summer (if I can). Should I go for something I've studied/worked on so I am more likely to perform well, or should I try something new at the risk of performing less well?

Thank you 🙂

Edited March 20, 2022 by Catpurrccino
typo

[chaboywb]

People will forget the work you do for them during summer by the time you return for articling (unless it was exceptionally good or bad). But they won't forget enthusiasm and effort. You're better off taking risks during summer, in my view. 

[nayaab05]

38 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

People will forget the work you do for them during summer by the time you return for articling (unless it was exceptionally good or bad). But they won't forget enthusiasm and effort. You're better off taking risks during summer, in my view. 

Agree with chaboywb. Would emphasize taking risks during summer. Also would add that relationship building plays a role in working as a lawyer so take the summer to get to know everyone at the firm - from the assistants to the partners along with your colleagues. It makes articling easier which ultimately helps with hireback. 

[Catpurrccino]

thank you @chaboywband @nayaab05!!

[Panda]

If you don’t try that new thing in the summer, you’ll be even less prepared when you are told to do that new thing in articling.

I think you should approach the summer as an opportunity to work with as many different lawyers as possible so that you know who you want to work with at length when you return.

[bebebebebe]

If you do really good work, it is likely that you will be forgotten. If you do very crappy work, you might be remembered as doing very crappy work for the person you did crappy work for, if they have a good enough memory. Will it affect hireback? Doubtful.

[OzLaw16]

6 hours ago, bebebebebe said:

If you do really good work, it is likely that you will be forgotten.

Not sure if this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but if it wasn't, then hard disagree on this. I worked with multiple lawyers during my summer (at a large Bay firm) who remembered the work I did when I returned for articling without me even bringing it up.

I don't think summer students should get overly anxious about making a perfect impression during summer (I agree with the consensus that it's extremely unlikely to affect hireback since articling is much longer and more recent), but your summer can absolutely be the time you start developing a positive reputation at your firm.

To more directly answer OP's question: summer is a good time to take risks on new areas you want to try out because the stakes are low - any lawyer you work with during the summer who's a decent person will know that you have little-to-no experience doing 99% of the things you're now being asked to do and won't write you off as hopeless just because you have difficulty with an assignment. The one thing I would add is that if you already know there's an area of law you're interested in (particularly if it's a more niche area), your summer's a good time to start making that clear and forming bonds with the lawyers in that area. I had a much easier time hitting the ground running in an area I was interested in when I started articling because a lot of the lawyers from that group remembered that I had shown interest in that work during my summer.

[Catpurrccino]

thank you for your insight @Panda @bebebebebe and @OzLaw16!

[chicken]

Not sure what this idea is that people forget your summer work. Definitely not at my firm (a big bay st firm). Your formal assessments from your summer work are also reviewed for first year associate hireback at most firms, along with your articling formal reviews. Lastly, the lawyers you work with in your summer will work with you again in articling, and may very well be the same people who vouch for you at hireback to the other partners. 
 

Your summer certainly matters when it comes to hireback, not significantly, but it lays the foundation for things to come and the practice group you want. It’s incorrect to say otherwise.

[chaboywb]

13 hours ago, chicken said:

Not sure what this idea is that people forget your summer work. Definitely not at my firm (a big bay st firm). Your formal assessments from your summer work are also reviewed for first year associate hireback at most firms, along with your articling formal reviews. Lastly, the lawyers you work with in your summer will work with you again in articling, and may very well be the same people who vouch for you at hireback to the other partners. 
 

Your summer certainly matters when it comes to hireback, not significantly, but it lays the foundation for things to come and the practice group you want. It’s incorrect to say otherwise.

What I mean is that the work generally done by students at a big firm isn't going to be particularly memorable. There are occasional opportunities to wow people but my observation was that lawyers remembered me as a person, not the exact assignments that I worked on for them. I'd have to remind them of the latter.

Perhaps not a typical experience - maybe my work is just forgettable!

But overall, I felt more confident taking on files outside of my comfort zone as a summer student, because even if I screwed up (1) expectations were lower and (2) I'd have plenty of opportunities to change the assigning lawyer's impression of me. As an articling student, there's a constant feeling of knowing my recent actions will be fresh in the hiring peoples' minds when that time comes.

[Psychometronic]

At my firm, performance during your articling year has a much greater impact on associate hirebacks than summering. There's basically no correlation between who summers and who is hired back. As said above, lawyers will forget the work you do in the summer unless it was extraordinary. I suggest treating your summer as an opportunity to get a broad range of experience, narrow down your interests, and get to know the people you work with. It's a good time start building up your toolkit and find out what kind of work environment you want to be in. 

[Apple]

I echo what others have said. In my view the summers are where you should start developing your relationship with firm staff, as this impacts hire back. Demonstrate yourself to be a hard working person who takes initiative on firm issues, treats everyone kindly and work hard to make your work excellent. Make yourself available to support clerks and other staff and these groups talk a lot. You want to demonstrate value to the firm and not just with your legal competency. 

During my 1L summer I came to find out that a staff member who was with the firm since it began went to the partners before this staff member retired and told them that I had the character and attitude of the founding partner and that I'd be a valuable person to have on the partnership. All I did was respond to this staff members requests, talk to them occasionally about their life and approached them as an equal. I also did this with all other staff members and this was noticed by this particular staff member and the partnership. This reality was raised when the firm asked for me to return. How you treat others is just as important as your legal skill. 

 

[bebebebebe]

I worded it incorrectly. I did not mean you, as a person will be forgotten, I meant that good summer work experience is not going to be taken into account for hireback after the same people have spent almost a year working with you and countless others. Your summer is not going to stand out. Just don't be absolutely horrible, because then it will. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by bebebebebe

[t3ctonics]

On 3/20/2022 at 2:41 PM, nayaab05 said:

Agree with chaboywb. Would emphasize taking risks during summer. Also would add that relationship building plays a role in working as a lawyer so take the summer to get to know everyone at the firm - from the assistants to the partners along with your colleagues. It makes articling easier which ultimately helps with hireback. 

I think that from the firm's perspective this is one of the main reasons for hiring summer students - so the lawyers at the firm and the students can get to know each other. Most of the work assigned to summer students could be done to a higher standard and cheaper (due to efficiency) by giving it to legal assistants, paralegals, articling students, or junior associates. The point of hiring summer students is less about the work and more for recruitment. Once the students are there the firm will start integrating them by building relationships with the people, and familiarity with the firm's processes, systems, culture, etc., so when they come back for articling or as an associate everyone is more comfortable and the student gets up to speed more quickly.

On 3/21/2022 at 5:04 PM, OzLaw16 said:

Not sure if this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but if it wasn't, then hard disagree on this. I worked with multiple lawyers during my summer (at a large Bay firm) who remembered the work I did when I returned for articling without me even bringing it up.

I don't think summer students should get overly anxious about making a perfect impression during summer (I agree with the consensus that it's extremely unlikely to affect hireback since articling is much longer and more recent), but your summer can absolutely be the time you start developing a positive reputation at your firm.

To more directly answer OP's question: summer is a good time to take risks on new areas you want to try out because the stakes are low - any lawyer you work with during the summer who's a decent person will know that you have little-to-no experience doing 99% of the things you're now being asked to do and won't write you off as hopeless just because you have difficulty with an assignment. The one thing I would add is that if you already know there's an area of law you're interested in (particularly if it's a more niche area), your summer's a good time to start making that clear and forming bonds with the lawyers in that area. I had a much easier time hitting the ground running in an area I was interested in when I started articling because a lot of the lawyers from that group remembered that I had shown interest in that work during my summer.

I agree with this. People tend to remember good work, it just doesn't necessarily come up. Lawyers tend to be bad people managers, and will often only make very vague comments (if any) about the quality of work of students or juniors unless there is a problem. But if the topic is raised (e.g. when they're asked by the firm to provide feedback for a review) they will usually remember it. As an example, I wrote a memo during my second year summer that was basically just acknowledged a couple of weeks later with "thanks, that was helpful" and that was the last I heard of it until four years later, when the associate I did it for referenced it to tell a partner that I did great work.

Even if nothing in particular stands out, a review of "she was eager to any assignments, and completed everything I assigned her within deadlines" is still a great review for a summer student. If you're there you're no doubt competent; the real question is whether you have the attitude and work ethic to succeed, and whether you fit into the culture of the firm/practice group/office.

[Rashabon]

15 minutes ago, t3ctonics said:

Even if nothing in particular stands out, a review of "she was eager to any assignments, and completed everything I assigned her within deadlines" is still a great review for a summer student. If you're there you're no doubt competent; the real question is whether you have the attitude and work ethic to succeed, and whether you fit into the culture of the firm/practice group/office.

This is my default positive review and I can't stress enough that showing interest and being eager and hitting your deadlines are the most important things. I don't expect students to deliver me top quality work. I don't even expect it from my junior associates and am pleasantly surprised when I get it from mid-levels, because I have very high standards. But being on time and having a positive attitude and doing your best go a long way.

[Kimura]

One regret I have from my summer is not introducing myself to more of the lawyers in the practice group I am now interested in (i.e., I met 3 of the 10-11 lawyers in the group, and predominantly did work for one of them). Any advice for when I return for articling to build those connections early on? I'm thinking I'll just pop into their offices, introduce myself and make my interests/intentions clear.

[Rashabon]

34 minutes ago, Kimura said:

One regret I have from my summer is not introducing myself to more of the lawyers in the practice group I am now interested in (i.e., I met 3 of the 10-11 lawyers in the group, and predominantly did work for one of them). Any advice for when I return for articling to build those connections early on? I'm thinking I'll just pop into their offices, introduce myself and make my interests/intentions clear.

Yep that sounds like a good plan. Go to any events they are hosting as a group that you would be invited to, find opportunities to chat with them. Tell the people you have a connection with already that you're interested and wouldn't mind meeting other members of the group.