UofT vs Queens-- am I self-sabotaging?

[Swan]

I was previously sold on U of T, but Queens accepted me right before decisions are due, calling my previous decision totally into question. 

Career Aspirations: On one hand, I'd love to find a legal passion throughout my schooling, as I'm very open minded. Criminal and Health definitely interest me. However, if nothing catches my eye, I'll most likely be chasing a job in corporate Biglaw to survive the current economy. Note: my education is paid for regardless of price tag due to inheritance.

Queens -- close(er) to my loved ones, better community, campus & camaraderie, smaller program with supportive staff, but (and it's a huge but) placement stats straight up don't compare. 

U of T -- competitive environment, more isolated from loved ones, I seriously dislike downtown, but (and it's a huge but) stats-wise it's the smartest choice.

I just have this sinking gut feeling that the stress and isolation at U of T won't be worth the eventual career payoff. So is going for Queens a smart choice to preserve my mental health or am I doubting my own ability to succeed too much and throwing in the towel early?

[NowOrNever]

UofT.

Just 2 hours driving away from your family so you can back home on the weekends.

Edited April 1, 2022 by NowOrNever

[Rashabon]

I did not find U of T to be a competitive environment at all. The people that do tend to put that stress on themselves. Everyone was incredibly laid back because nobody had a chip on their shoulder and career outcomes were much easier for most people.

It sounds like you want to go to Queens so go there, but I don't see how Queens comes even close to comparing in terms of better campus or how you've assessed camaraderie with a cohort you haven't met.

[Ghalm]

Recent UofT grad... my experience at UofT was also very relaxed, laid back, and not competitive. A couple bad eggs that liked to make comments about how many OCIs they got during the high-anxiety season, but yeah everyone had this (rightly or wrongly) feeling that we are all going to be OK so no need to be competitive about jobs or what not. 

[Renerik]

If tuition is paid for, I'd opt for UofT. 

Now the idea that you should go for a career in biglaw to survive the current economy is out of touch at best, especially since your inheritance should let you graduate debt free.

 

[Conge]

UofT, no question. 

[QueensDenning]

At Queen's Law it's a bit of a running joke that the one thing we all have in common is that we were denied from UofT.

I've loved my Queen's Law experience and have a good summer job lined up, but you should accept UofT. At the end of the day I think it just opens more doors. 

 

[Swan]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:55 PM, Renerik said:

Now the idea that you should go for a career in biglaw to survive the current economy is out of touch at best

Thank you, that is a very helpful reality check. I'm psyching myself out so bad right now, logic has flown out the window 😆 appreciate your response

2 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

At Queen's Law it's a bit of a running joke that the one thing we all have in common is that we were denied from UofT.

I've loved my Queen's Law experience and have a good summer job lined up, but you should accept UofT. At the end of the day I think it just opens more doors.

Wow, okay, I really appreciate a Queens student's honest response. Thank you

On 4/1/2022 at 5:42 PM, Rashabon said:

I did not find U of T to be a competitive environment at all. The people that do tend to put that stress on themselves. Everyone was incredibly laid back because nobody had a chip on their shoulder and career outcomes were much easier for most people.

It sounds like you want to go to Queens so go there, but I don't see how Queens comes even close to comparing in terms of better campus or how you've assessed camaraderie with a cohort you haven't met.

I appreciate your input. I think I've been overthinking and nitpicking a way to stay closer to where I've set down roots in Ottawa. But turning down U of T is starting to feel like a serious bullet in the foot when considering the feedback of third party individuals. I'm trying my best to work through it

[QueensDenning]

12 minutes ago, Swan said:

Wow, okay, I really appreciate a Queens student's honest response. Thank you

Just for full disclosure - my doors open anecdote is really only in reference to BigLaw recruiting. I have no idea whether a UofT degree vs. Queen's would have any impact on criminal/health law stuff, and I know Queen's has a really good crim law program/reputation. 

[MiceInRice]

I know everyone replying has said UofT, and it's a great school, but you've said you seriously dislike downtown. That's exactly why I didn't apply to UofT. There's no way I could manage three years in downtown Toronto just for a school that sets you up better to work in downtown Toronto. Put some thought into the life you want outside of work. I'd argue it's a more important consideration, especially since you won't need a biglaw job to pay off law school debt.

And with a name like Swan, you'll already be a name partner at Kingston's largest law firm!

Edited April 4, 2022 by MiceInRice

[Dad]

Current Queen’s student. I didn’t get my LSAT score back until after apps were due, and didn’t apply to Toronto schools because I (1) didn’t think my lsat would be competitive (I got lucky and ended up in the 98th percentile) and (2) did not want to pay rent in Toronto or pay U of T tuition.

Part of me wishes I had applied. I think U of T would have been more academically rigorous and engaging, and my ego would like the “prestige” factor of going to U of T. 

But I’ve had a great experience here. The profs are great. There’s lots to do in the city. Everyone’s studious but also pretty chill (possibly more relaxed/social than U of T). Most importantly, I still landed at my goal firm (Bay St) and paid waaaay less (30-40% less) to get there than if I had gone to U of T.  Everyone I’ve spoken to says that after a few years of practice, the school you went to doesn’t matter. I’d have an easier time going to NY if I went to U of T, but I’m not sure that’s what I want anyway, so the cost savings were totally worth it in my opinion. 

If your parents are paying for everything, go to U of T. 

[ruthlessfox]

I agree with @Rashabon, it's always interesting to me that UofT has a reputation for being cutthroat or antisocial. My experience has been that students are extremely helpful and compassionate to each other. In fact, my experience in my undergrad program (at a similar school to Queens with regards to community) was a lot more "competitive" than I find UofT Law to be.  In 1L when I missed a class, people in my small group noticed I wasn't there and sent me multiple sets of notes without me even asking for them. 

Both Queens and UofT are small programs - law students are pretty insulated from the wider UofT community so you still get the intimate feeling despite the large university. People form tight-knit social groups and make lifelong friends. There are more social and community events than you could possibly attend. I'm not saying that Queens doesn't have the stronger sense of community in the small university town, but I think the actual difference in social experience is small enough that it's not on its own a compelling justification to go there.

If you are still making your decision, I would focus your decision on how important certain career outcomes are to you (i.e. big law), and whether being away from family and friends would have a big negative impact on your mental health (which is a very important factor). While Queens places well in Toronto recruits, UofT is in a different league in terms of recruit outcomes. UofT also opens the door to New York, if that's of interest to you.