What is a Typical Principal-Student Relationship Like?

[Ramesses]

My principal is a newish partner and is extremely busy. I am his first articling student and I feel like he is unsure of what the relationship should be like. We scheduled quarterly meetings and lunches, he said I can come to him anytime with questions, and he asked his associates to assign me work. Is this typical of a principal-student relationship? Is there anything else I should ask for?

I asked some of the newly-called assoicates and they said our firm does not have a specific articling policy or guideline. It is up to the principal and the student to figure out how they want to do it. Some principals never met with their students while others would go for lunch biweekly. Some were very hands on while others were not. I think I want a closer or more hands on relationship with him, but I also recognize he is very busy. I also do not know what else I should ask for in the relationship.

[KOMODO]

It sounds like a relatively good principal relationship in the context of a big firm. When I articled, my principal was in name only - I only met her when she signed by completion letter. Separately we had partner and associate mentors in each rotation, but the partner mentors were not excessively involved unless you happened to be working with them on files. Most contact was with associates. 

When we think about mentoring relationships in the context of big firms, I like to break them into two categories - mentoring on career planning and life advice, vs. mentoring on technical skills. It sounds like your principal is prepared to mentor you on the life advice side (quarterly meetings and lunches), but he's relying on his associates to teach you technical skills (assign and evaluate your work). This is normal and seems fair enough to me.

In the context of a smaller firm, in house, sole prac, government, etc. - the principal relationship is likely to look different, and principals may need to be more involved because they don't have layers of lawyers in between.

[ZineZ]

18 minutes ago, KOMODO said:

In the context of a smaller firm, in house, sole prac, government, etc. - the principal relationship is likely to look different, and principals may need to be more involved because they don't have layers of lawyers in between.

This is true in the government context. My principal took a very hands-on approach. This included:

1. Including me on her files.
2. Finding me work when there wasn't much going on.
3. Emailing the office for feedback on my behalf (I had asked for quarterly updates on what I was doing well/what needed improvement).
4. Scheduling monthly meetings to check in on how I was doing.
5. Helping me network with other offices.

It was an excellent experience and I'm very grateful for it. But the reason for it, as mentioned by KOMODO, is related to the fact that our office was relatively small (25 people), so my experience was very different than for someone in a firm. 

 

[Ryn]

KOMODO's experience largely mirrors mine. My principal was also in name only, but my firm had a student committee and each of us had a mentor we met with once a month to just chat about how articling was going, Q&A, and that sort of thing. We had formal reviews after each rotation for feedback and comments. The firm definitely took the approach of trying to mentor students collectively rather than assign all of the burden to a single person. So while my principal only gave me a handful of assignments during articling, and we never chatted about articling-related things, it was understood that the firm had it covered and the principal was there only to put a name down for the law society formality. I didn't particularly object to this, and at a medium to large firm I suspect this is fairly typical.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I would expect that students at a small firm or in-house will have a much closer relationship to their principal, with them actively being involved in the mentoring. At least, that's the way it should be. Because articling principals have very specific obligations that need to be upheld. This can be done by proxy at a large firm, but at a small shop it should be fulfilled directly.

On 6/3/2022 at 1:40 AM, Ramesses said:

I think I want a closer or more hands on relationship with him, but I also recognize he is very busy. I also do not know what else I should ask for in the relationship.

In general, in addition to whatever else you might feel should (reasonably) be a part of the student-principal relationship, the principal (or the firm by proxy) should be providing you the necessary training in the practice of law generally. This consists of things like giving you work, providing constructive feedback on your assignments, exposing you to different areas of law, taking you to client meetings or to court (if you're working with litigators), and so on. They should also connect you to other lawyers at the firm, provided the firm has the capability, to expose you to additional areas of law.

The social aspects, such as going to lunches and that sort of thing, is certainly nice but I would argue that's not really what a principal should be focusing on. If it was entirely absent from the relationship, I don't know if I, personally, would find that problematic or indicative of having received sub-par mentoring.

 

[Ramesses]

12 hours ago, KOMODO said:

It sounds like a relatively good principal relationship in the context of a big firm. When I articled, my principal was in name only - I only met her when she signed by completion letter. Separately we had partner and associate mentors in each rotation, but the partner mentors were not excessively involved unless you happened to be working with them on files. Most contact was with associates. 

When we think about mentoring relationships in the context of big firms, I like to break them into two categories - mentoring on career planning and life advice, vs. mentoring on technical skills. It sounds like your principal is prepared to mentor you on the life advice side (quarterly meetings and lunches), but he's relying on his associates to teach you technical skills (assign and evaluate your work). This is normal and seems fair enough to me.

In the context of a smaller firm, in house, sole prac, government, etc. - the principal relationship is likely to look different, and principals may need to be more involved because they don't have layers of lawyers in between.

You are spot on. I think he's more there for career planning and life advice. He asked his associates to give me a lot of the work and the technically strong partners to give me work too. 

11 hours ago, Ryn said:

KOMODO's experience largely mirrors mine. My principal was also in name only, but my firm had a student committee and each of us had a mentor we met with once a month to just chat about how articling was going, Q&A, and that sort of thing. We had formal reviews after each rotation for feedback and comments. The firm definitely took the approach of trying to mentor students collectively rather than assign all of the burden to a single person. So while my principal only gave me a handful of assignments during articling, and we never chatted about articling-related things, it was understood that the firm had it covered and the principal was there only to put a name down for the law society formality. I didn't particularly object to this, and at a medium to large firm I suspect this is fairly typical.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I would expect that students at a small firm or in-house will have a much closer relationship to their principal, with them actively being involved in the mentoring. At least, that's the way it should be. Because articling principals have very specific obligations that need to be upheld. This can be done by proxy at a large firm, but at a small shop it should be fulfilled directly.

In general, in addition to whatever else you might feel should (reasonably) be a part of the student-principal relationship, the principal (or the firm by proxy) should be providing you the necessary training in the practice of law generally. This consists of things like giving you work, providing constructive feedback on your assignments, exposing you to different areas of law, taking you to client meetings or to court (if you're working with litigators), and so on. They should also connect you to other lawyers at the firm, provided the firm has the capability, to expose you to additional areas of law.

The social aspects, such as going to lunches and that sort of thing, is certainly nice but I would argue that's not really what a principal should be focusing on. If it was entirely absent from the relationship, I don't know if I, personally, would find that problematic or indicative of having received sub-par mentoring.

That's a great point. It should not be about chatting and going for lunch. He has been CCing me on a lot of stuff he's working on just so I can review when I have time or learn more about how to communicate with clients. I went to a meeting with him and was pretty impressed by how he took control and convinced opposing counsel to reconsider their position. I think he does expect our coordinator to take care of a lot of the articling stuff but the coordinator just got promoted to do more stuff and is not around often. Also the rest of my cohort is starting later so it is just me for now. Hopefully things go back to normal when they start. 

Thanks everyone!