What should we be scoring on practice bar exams?

[Sureaboutnotbeingsure]

Any idea of what a score is that would be reflective of passing? Is it 50%? I am asking because on one exam I got over 80% and on another I got 68% (Emond). Both are passes. Emond seems more difficult compared to others. Largely consisted of fact patterns and long questions. 

[yunglawyer]

I bought practice exams from a bunch of different providers and also had scores that were all over the map. I thought it was funny when you would get a "pass" or "fail" score, seeing as the LSO doesn't publish stats and these companies have no clue what you need to pass. Out of all the practice exams, I thought Ontario Bar Prep was the most useful because you can see how you're doing compared to other writers and it was the most (keyword = "most") similar to the real exams IMO. If you're below average, you probably need to practice some more.

 

[Sureaboutnotbeingsure]

13 minutes ago, yunglawyer said:

I bought practice exams from a bunch of different providers and also had scores that were all over the map. I thought it was funny when you would get a "pass" or "fail" score, seeing as the LSO doesn't publish stats and these companies have no clue what you need to pass. Out of all the practice exams, I thought Ontario Bar Prep was the most useful because you can see how you're doing compared to other writers and it was the most (keyword = "most") similar to the real exams IMO. If you're below average, you probably need to practice some more.

 

Lol I was hoping someone out there may have some insight on the pass fail. There is so many posts online saying aim 60%. Some quizzes make 50% the pass rate. Very confusing. I’ll check out Ontario bar prep, but at the same time I don’t want to psych myself out. Already feeling quite tired. I’m wondering how many more practice exams I should do.

[Dood]

My plan is to get as comfortable as possible with using and applying the study materials. To me that’s the biggest benefit of the commercial practice tests - allowing you to practice flipping around in the material and trying out your index and TOC. 

[TobyFlenderson]

What test providers do people recommend? I’ve got OBP but haven’t taken a practice test with them yet, and Emond is giving me some technical difficulties that I’m not expecting will be resolved in time for the barrister.

I’d just like to do some sections, timed or not, before I do a full length OBP exam for “real”.

[Sureaboutnotbeingsure]

3 hours ago, TobyFlenderson said:

What test providers do people recommend? I’ve got OBP but haven’t taken a practice test with them yet, and Emond is giving me some technical difficulties that I’m not expecting will be resolved in time for the barrister.

I’d just like to do some sections, timed or not, before I do a full length OBP exam for “real”.

Try barexamcrackers and affordable bar prep!

[TobyFlenderson]

57 minutes ago, Sureaboutnotbeingsure said:

Try barexamcrackers and affordable bar prep!

Thank you!

I also found that Access Bar Prep has some free "mini exams" as well, 80 questions each for barrister/solicitor, for anyone looking to flip through their materials and get a feel for them without paying more than they already have.

[BananaPoo]

When you fail one of the licensing exams, they give you a report showing how you performed on each section and you can calculate your cumulative score, which is presumably what’s used to determine whether you’ve passed or not. 
 

I made a boo boo on the barrister exam last year and flunked it on the first attempt with a cumulative score of 66%. I’m guessing the passing grade would be roughly around the 70% mark. 
 

Best of luck to all of you! 🙂 

[Sureaboutnotbeingsure]

47 minutes ago, BananaPoo said:

When you fail one of the licensing exams, they give you a report showing how you performed on each section and you can calculate your cumulative score, which is presumably what’s used to determine whether you’ve passed or not. 
 

I made a boo boo on the barrister exam last year and flunked it on the first attempt with a cumulative score of 66%. I’m guessing the passing grade would be roughly around the 70% mark. 
 

Best of luck to all of you! 🙂 

Thanks for sharing. What was your studying technique leading up to that exam? And how did it differ compared to your second attempt? 

[BananaPoo]

7 hours ago, Sureaboutnotbeingsure said:

Thanks for sharing. What was your studying technique leading up to that exam? And how did it differ compared to your second attempt? 

Honestly, other than doing a couple more practice tests, my study techniques between both attempts didn’t differ much. I think from nerves, I was reading the questions too fast and probably missed a bunch of key words. The exam is not conceptually difficult; it just requires practice of being able to find the answer based on the key word(s) in the question stem. 
 

For studying, I bought the summaries/indices from bar exam crackers and made changes to those summaries/indices as I did the practice tests. If you use an index or the detailed table of contents, I would advise to take the time to review it over and over so you have a good idea where certain sections are. For my first attempt, I did a few attempts of the bar exam crackers practice exam which I felt was enough at the time, especially since solicitor took me one shot. For my second barrister attempt, I also used the Emond and OLE exams just for the sake of getting exposure to different types of questions and making further edits to my index. 
 

This exam is not an exam of knowledge so if you decide to do the readings, don’t waste your time taking detailed notes. This exam is basically a speedy scavenger hunt. Your success comes from developing the ability to find the answer quickly. Get a good index/use the DToC and become best friends with that index/DToC.
 

The bar exam crackers index was pretty good, although they didn’t have one for professional responsibility (as a heads up). For PF though, the DToC is more than enough and most of the answers are either to “conduct a conflicts search” or something along the lines of following your client’s instructions.

 

The level of difficulty on all practice exams will be at least slightly easier than the real exam. Between OLE, Emond, and BEC, OLE was the most accurate in terms of difficulty and the types of questions you’d expect. Emond had good questions too, but some of their questions were way too fucking long and they didn’t organize the questions by category during your attempt which was annoying. The BEC practice exams are good practice in terms of being able to navigate your index/DToC, but the questions themselves were too easy.

All in all, just practice and you’ll do fine. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by BananaPoo

[Sureaboutnotbeingsure]

1 hour ago, BananaPoo said:

Honestly, other than doing a couple more practice tests, my study techniques between both attempts didn’t differ much. I think from nerves, I was reading the questions too fast and probably missed a bunch of key words. The exam is not conceptually difficult; it just requires practice of being able to find the answer based on the key word(s) in the question stem. 
 

For studying, I bought the summaries/indices from bar exam crackers and made changes to those summaries/indices as I did the practice tests. If you use an index or the detailed table of contents, I would advise to take the time to review it over and over so you have a good idea where certain sections are. For my first attempt, I did a few attempts of the bar exam crackers practice exam which I felt was enough at the time, especially since solicitor took me one shot. For my second barrister attempt, I also used the Emond and OLE exams just for the sake of getting exposure to different types of questions and making further edits to my index. 
 

This exam is not an exam of knowledge so if you decide to do the readings, don’t waste your time taking detailed notes. This exam is basically a speedy scavenger hunt. Your success comes from developing the ability to find the answer quickly. Get a good index/use the DToC and become best friends with that index/DToC.
 

The bar exam crackers index was pretty good, although they didn’t have one for professional responsibility (as a heads up). For PF though, the DToC is more than enough and most of the answers are either to “conduct a conflicts search” or something along the lines of following your client’s instructions.

 

The level of difficulty on all practice exams will be at least slightly easier than the real exam. Between OLE, Emond, and BEC, OLE was the most accurate in terms of difficulty and the types of questions you’d expect. Emond had good questions too, but some of their questions were way too fucking long and they didn’t organize the questions by category during your attempt which was annoying. The BEC practice exams are good practice in terms of being able to navigate your index/DToC, but the questions themselves were too easy.

All in all, just practice and you’ll do fine. 

This is very helpful! I am certain others will find your advice useful too. Thanks so much for taking the time to help. Have a great weekend!

[Peejay]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:20 AM, BananaPoo said:

Honestly, other than doing a couple more practice tests, my study techniques between both attempts didn’t differ much. I think from nerves, I was reading the questions too fast and probably missed a bunch of key words. The exam is not conceptually difficult; it just requires practice of being able to find the answer based on the key word(s) in the question stem. 
 

For studying, I bought the summaries/indices from bar exam crackers and made changes to those summaries/indices as I did the practice tests. If you use an index or the detailed table of contents, I would advise to take the time to review it over and over so you have a good idea where certain sections are. For my first attempt, I did a few attempts of the bar exam crackers practice exam which I felt was enough at the time, especially since solicitor took me one shot. For my second barrister attempt, I also used the Emond and OLE exams just for the sake of getting exposure to different types of questions and making further edits to my index. 
 

This exam is not an exam of knowledge so if you decide to do the readings, don’t waste your time taking detailed notes. This exam is basically a speedy scavenger hunt. Your success comes from developing the ability to find the answer quickly. Get a good index/use the DToC and become best friends with that index/DToC.
 

The bar exam crackers index was pretty good, although they didn’t have one for professional responsibility (as a heads up). For PF though, the DToC is more than enough and most of the answers are either to “conduct a conflicts search” or something along the lines of following your client’s instructions.

 

The level of difficulty on all practice exams will be at least slightly easier than the real exam. Between OLE, Emond, and BEC, OLE was the most accurate in terms of difficulty and the types of questions you’d expect. Emond had good questions too, but some of their questions were way too fucking long and they didn’t organize the questions by category during your attempt which was annoying. The BEC practice exams are good practice in terms of being able to navigate your index/DToC, but the questions themselves were too easy.

All in all, just practice and you’ll do fine. 

Do you know if firms factor failing the bar in their hireback decisions? 

[Ryn]

30 minutes ago, Peejay said:

Do you know if firms factor failing the bar in their hireback decisions? 

I'm pretty sure you'd have to fail the bar three times for it to matter: once in the summer before articling starts, and a second time during articling (usually in October) and once in the winter during articling (can't remember the exact date but early in the year).

I would imagine if you fail the bar exam and can't be called in time, it would definitely affect the firm's decision to hire you back. I would almost go so far as to say your likelihood of being hired will become quite low. If you fail it once but pass it in time to get called, I suspect most firms would not care. They might not even know, unless they ask you, which they very well might not even do.

[Peejay]

14 hours ago, Ryn said:

I'm pretty sure you'd have to fail the bar three times for it to matter: once in the summer before articling starts, and a second time during articling (usually in October) and once in the winter during articling (can't remember the exact date but early in the year).

I would imagine if you fail the bar exam and can't be called in time, it would definitely affect the firm's decision to hire you back. I would almost go so far as to say your likelihood of being hired will become quite low. If you fail it once but pass it in time to get called, I suspect most firms would not care. They might not even know, unless they ask you, which they very well might not even do.

No I definitely meant failing just the once. If that’s something that’s seen as a red flag in the hireback decision making. 

[Ryn]

1 hour ago, Peejay said:

No I definitely meant failing just the once. If that’s something that’s seen as a red flag in the hireback decision making. 

I mean it might. None of us can control what people in charge of hiring care about at firms. But I think it would be unusual. People fail the bar for all kinds of different reasons (maybe you just had a bad test day, or you offset your answers by one, or whatever). I would think that as long as you get called on time, a firm is unlikely to give it much weight. Particularly if you had already demonstrated competence as a student and they would otherwise want to have you back as an associate.

As I said before, they might not even ask how you did on the bar (in which case you are free to not even mention it -- again, as long as you get called on time).

In summary, try and pass the bar the first time, but if it doesn't happen, don't panic and try again. Definitely reach out to the law society for support, though, if you fail. They will tell you, roughly, where you need to focus your studying.

[TheJoker]

Has anyone bought the flash cards from Emond? I’m in the process of buying practice exams (Affordable Bar Prep is what I’m starting with, to get familiar with using my indices). I saw the flash cards on Emond and was wondering if they’re worth the price or if they’re not useful.