Rejected almost everywhere 3.14 GPA L2: 3.12 L20: 3.105 super depressed

[Sadreapplicant]

Hey guys,

just wanted you to chance me. LSAT I wrote without studying back in august 2020 and got a 150. I tried studying again on and off but my pts were mid 150s range but I never actually studied intensely. So I didn’t write the lsat again due to fear of failing. I guess I thought I had time. Anyways I applied with these stats this past cycle and obviously I either got rejected by all Ontario schools that I applied to or I’m still referred (for ex Windsor dual). I just want realistic advice. I have no friends or family who did law so LSAT studying was me searching up on Reddit how to study from people who may have different learning abilities. I beleive self studying isn’t sufficient for me and I should enrol in a prep course like Harvard ready. But I need to ask, with my gpa is all hope lost for Ontario schools? Should I just give up and get my CPA licensing? That was a backup for me because I’m as afraid I wouldn’t get in. But I’ve also seen people actually study properly and improve their scores. I think maximum I’ve studied is like 2 weeks of proper studying. I also did have undiagnosed adhd which I have just gotten medicated for last month . What do you guys think? Give up? Or can I write the November lsat and reapply? Is there a certain score that can improve my application. I just don’t think I can recover from a gpa that low since I already graduated. Will taking courses at UofT continuing studies count towards upgrading my gpa? Or should I fully focus on my LSAT these next months instead of enrolling in fall courses?? i don’t  want pity, I want tough love

i want to add I’m 22 turning 23 in December, I took a fifth year. I feel like a failure as both of my siblings are doctors. If I reapply I’ll be 23 turning 24 starting law school and be 26 when I graduate. Is that too late? All my friends are already established in their careers  or have gotten into grad school. I feel like a loser. I’ve slowly started to ge tmy life back on track like going to the gym which I hadn’t entered in 7 months and waking up early. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sadreapplicant

[123]

6 minutes ago, Sadreapplicant said:

i want to add I’m 22 turning 23 in December, I took a fifth year. I feel like a failure as both of my siblings are doctors. If I reapply I’ll be 23 turning 24 starting law school and be 26 when I graduate. Is that too late? All my friends are already established in their careers  or have gotten into grad school. I feel like a loser. I’ve slowly started to ge tmy life back on track like going to the gym which I hadn’t entered in 7 months and waking up early. 

I'll leave the actual career advice to others. But you're not a failure. Neither grades nor the LSAT are determinative of your personal and professional worth. Grades say a lot about how you did at undergrad evaluations. And the LSAT says something about how you might do in law school. But lots of middling undergrad students go on to having fulfilling careers and lives doing whatever. That's true for people who get 150s on the LSAT, too, albeit maybe not in law.

Being a lawyer is good. I like it. But it's only one way to earn a living, and it has plenty of downsides. If you want to keep plugging away at law school admissions, that's fine. But there's no shame in pursuing something else. Especially not at 24. Unless you're planning on dying in the next few years, you have a lifetime left to find your place in the world.

[Sadreapplicant]

11 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

I'll leave the actual career advice to others. But you're not a failure. Neither grades nor the LSAT are determinative of your personal and professional worth. Grades say a lot about how you did at undergrad evaluations. And the LSAT says something about how you might do in law school. But lots of middling undergrad students go on to having fulfilling careers and lives doing whatever. That's true for people who get 150s on the LSAT, too, albeit maybe not in law.

Being a lawyer is good. I like it. But it's only one way to earn a living, and it has plenty of downsides. If you want to keep plugging away at law school admissions, that's fine. But there's no shame in pursuing something else. Especially not at 24. Unless you're planning on dying in the next few years, you have a lifetime left to find your place in the world.

Thank you for the kind words. In your opinion if I’m still referred for Windsor dual, is there any chance of me getting in?

[Desilegallyblonde]

LOLOOOOOL im 26 and am on the waitlist at windsor. age means absolutely nothing. if im 30, ill still be applying to law school bc this is what i know i am meant to do. and tbh if i went to law school when i was younger, i dont think i would have valued it as much as i will now.

[AllRise]

You are NOT a loser and you are NOT a failure.

I know it's hard, but you must actively try to not compare yourself to your siblings, or anyone else for that matter. Your life and journey is your own, and the path that it takes it unique to you and cannot be measured so easily by admission to post-secondary educational programs. It is hard to see this at your young age I'm sure, but you'll just have to trust me on that. 

Firstly, do you really want to be a lawyer or are you pursuing that because your siblings are doctors? I certainly shouldn't reach given your single post on a forum board, but it doesn't really sound like you have a passion for the law. Law school is difficult, even more so if you aren't interested in the content. I would start by doing some soul-searching and trying to really determine if it is the path you wish to pursue.

Secondly, you are VERY young. Regardless of what others are accomplishing you are young and you have oodles of time to pursue different interests and career paths to find what is right for you.

Speaking on your grades specifically, I had a magnificent 3.2 cGPA (albeit a higher L2 and B2) when I applied and I was still accepted. You aren't doomed with a low cGPA and L2, but it will be harder for you and you would have to make up that shortfall on your application somehow. That could be with a higher than average LSAT and/or a very strong PS and extracurriculars/work experience. Nothing is impossible, but it will be difficult and you will have to work at it. 

I want to finish this by reiterating that you are NOT a loser or a failure, I used to compare myself to others and only considered myself a success if I accomplished more or had higher grades, and I have learned that is a folly. That path leads nowhere. Figure out who YOU are and what YOU want to accomplish in this life, perhaps it is the law, perhaps not. Regardless, you are not defined by academic success or a shiny career. You will get older, and trust me when I say you don't remember the late nights at the office, you remember the weekends in the sun with family and friends. 

[tiktok]

First, writing the LSAT without studying is never a good option, especially when you don't have the gpa to balance out a bad lsat score.  Your gpa is really low, but if you have a compelling story explaining your poor performance in undergrad and a high LSAT score (high 160s and upward), I think you could get into Ryerson or Lakehead. I know some people do a second undergrad degree to raise their gpa. that could be an option too. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by tiktok

[ZukoJD]

I don't think you should discount yourself until you take a genuine crack at the LSAT. Find a good resource (7Sage, HarvardReady) and apply yourself. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by ZukoJD

[Whist]

Like others are saying, you need to have a better go at the LSAT before making any hard decisions on what you really want to pursue. Your GPA isn't great, but it's not unworkable with a decent LSAT and/or applying through Discretionary categories due to your previously unmanaged ADHD. Some people have mentioned doing a couple years for a second undergrad and that might be a consideration. Plenty of people leave academia for a number of years and come back with life experience under their belt that can help make them a convincing candidate for admissions. 

In terms of your emotional wellbeing, we're not just trying to make you feel better when we say you're not a failure. We're telling the truth. Academics is only one facet of what makes up a person. One of my dearest old friends never made it past the tenth grade despite being a smart, emotionally in-tune, and wonderful person. I nearly didn't finish high school myself and felt pretty bad for awhile even when I eventually did finish. One of my immediate family members is in their mid-twenties and is just starting undergrad this Fall. None of these people are failures and neither are you. The age range of law students varies widely, and people come from all sorts of walks in life. The idea of a singular "life script" is bullshit. 

[Notworthy]

3 hours ago, Sadreapplicant said:

Hey guys,

just wanted you to chance me. LSAT I wrote without studying back in august 2020 and got a 150. I tried studying again on and off but my pts were mid 150s range but I never actually studied intensely. So I didn’t write the lsat again due to fear of failing. I guess I thought I had time. Anyways I applied with these stats this past cycle and obviously I either got rejected by all Ontario schools that I applied to or I’m still referred (for ex Windsor dual). I just want realistic advice. I have no friends or family who did law so LSAT studying was me searching up on Reddit how to study from people who may have different learning abilities. I beleive self studying isn’t sufficient for me and I should enrol in a prep course like Harvard ready. But I need to ask, with my gpa is all hope lost for Ontario schools? Should I just give up and get my CPA licensing? That was a backup for me because I’m as afraid I wouldn’t get in. But I’ve also seen people actually study properly and improve their scores. I think maximum I’ve studied is like 2 weeks of proper studying. I also did have undiagnosed adhd which I have just gotten medicated for last month . What do you guys think? Give up? Or can I write the November lsat and reapply? Is there a certain score that can improve my application. I just don’t think I can recover from a gpa that low since I already graduated. Will taking courses at UofT continuing studies count towards upgrading my gpa? Or should I fully focus on my LSAT these next months instead of enrolling in fall courses?? i don’t  want pity, I want tough love

i want to add I’m 22 turning 23 in December, I took a fifth year. I feel like a failure as both of my siblings are doctors. If I reapply I’ll be 23 turning 24 starting law school and be 26 when I graduate. Is that too late? All my friends are already established in their careers  or have gotten into grad school. I feel like a loser. I’ve slowly started to ge tmy life back on track like going to the gym which I hadn’t entered in 7 months and waking up early. 

The average age for law school is 25, in the U.S. they say it’s 27. Even if your 30 your going to not go? Even though you have TIRTY FIVE more years before retirement. Would you rather live in resentment?

Your not the only person that it took longer to get in, you also won’t be the last. If it’s important to you, you will put the work in. Your gpa and lsat score are both low imo and both need improvement. It will be an uphill battle but if you find it’s something you want to do, then you should go for it. If you are going to spend your time worrying about your age and stressing over factors out of your control then maybe pick a different career for you. It’s all a matter of perspective if you look at it negatively, then that is the lens you’ll see everything else in. 

I am sorry for the mental hardship your going through, I feel for you and I wish you the best. We all have been there and it’s not easy but pity is not the answer, you will have an even harder time in law school if you look at the journey ahead that way with regret. My two cents (which you don’t have to take at all) is to start with your GPA. Take more courses to improve your L20 and apply to schools that value the last two years vs overall. Typically more schools value GPA (60/40) UofA and Dal. Usask values best of 2 years full time maybe that is more in your favour? For the LSAT I used 7sage was a dream for me maybe prolong me your studying over a year / longer while you upgrade. Other individuals on here im sure will provide you with other test tools. 
 

Chin up. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Notworthy

[Lilbb19]

3 hours ago, Sadreapplicant said:

Hey guys,

just wanted you to chance me. LSAT I wrote without studying back in august 2020 and got a 150. I tried studying again on and off but my pts were mid 150s range but I never actually studied intensely. So I didn’t write the lsat again due to fear of failing. I guess I thought I had time. Anyways I applied with these stats this past cycle and obviously I either got rejected by all Ontario schools that I applied to or I’m still referred (for ex Windsor dual). I just want realistic advice. I have no friends or family who did law so LSAT studying was me searching up on Reddit how to study from people who may have different learning abilities. I beleive self studying isn’t sufficient for me and I should enrol in a prep course like Harvard ready. But I need to ask, with my gpa is all hope lost for Ontario schools? Should I just give up and get my CPA licensing? That was a backup for me because I’m as afraid I wouldn’t get in. But I’ve also seen people actually study properly and improve their scores. I think maximum I’ve studied is like 2 weeks of proper studying. I also did have undiagnosed adhd which I have just gotten medicated for last month . What do you guys think? Give up? Or can I write the November lsat and reapply? Is there a certain score that can improve my application. I just don’t think I can recover from a gpa that low since I already graduated. Will taking courses at UofT continuing studies count towards upgrading my gpa? Or should I fully focus on my LSAT these next months instead of enrolling in fall courses?? i don’t  want pity, I want tough love

i want to add I’m 22 turning 23 in December, I took a fifth year. I feel like a failure as both of my siblings are doctors. If I reapply I’ll be 23 turning 24 starting law school and be 26 when I graduate. Is that too late? All my friends are already established in their careers  or have gotten into grad school. I feel like a loser. I’ve slowly started to ge tmy life back on track like going to the gym which I hadn’t entered in 7 months and waking up early. 

your young af, you could be in a coma for 6 years wakeup and still be young. I started law school at 30 was a non issue bb. Settle down. Try 7sage for study prep. Also you can get time and a half on the lsat with your adhd diagnosis. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Lilbb19

[Piffle]

Two more thoughts to add, in addition the above posts, which I agree with:

1)    I don’t think one should give up on trying to become a lawyer simply because of a 150 LSAT, especially when it's the product of 2 mere weeks of studying. For most people, LSAT success doesn’t come immediately, and months are needed to get a score that’s actually reflective of their ability. You may well have much untapped potential.

2)    Assuming you indeed have the LSAT aptitude, the more important big-picture question, as others noted, is how much you want to be a lawyer and what your motivations are (I'm not asking you to answer this publicly). Because a low GPA does make admission an uphill battle. How much are you willing to sacrifice trying to chase after this career path before you tell yourself it’s time to move on?  For me, I went through more than 1 cycle, and took an extra year of undergrad to improve my GPA. Where someone chooses to draw the line comes down to the individual. It was worth it to me. For you, if it's worth it too, then don't give up!

Edited August 11, 2022 by Piffle

[TheGoodWife]

I used the PowerScore Bibles and I loved them. I also have a low GPA but managed a 166 on my first try after 6 or so months of studying while working full time. 

Regarding your age question, I am starting 1L turning 33 this Fall. Going through this process has confirmed for me that I was not mature enough for law school ten years ago, and I'm looking forward to bringing my lived experiences to my learning.

Aligned with the great advice from others already, don't compare your journey to the journeys of others. You need to do what's right for you. I was also one faced with a decision on pursuing a CPA and in the end decided it didn't feel right. I had to turn down a good job offer as a result. My path has since led me here. 

Reflection is key, be true to yourself. 

[myth000]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:21 PM, Sadreapplicant said:

i want to add I’m 22 turning 23 in December, I took a fifth year. I feel like a failure as both of my siblings are doctors. If I reapply I’ll be 23 turning 24 starting law school and be 26 when I graduate. Is that too late? All my friends are already established in their careers  or have gotten into grad school. I feel like a loser. I’ve slowly started to ge tmy life back on track like going to the gym which I hadn’t entered in 7 months and waking up early. 

I can sympathize with your motivation as I've gone through something similar at that age.  Lawyers and doctors are still spoken of in the same breath in the public imagination, but the reality is that as an average lawyer you'll be earning far less than a doctor, or about the same as a nurse, and will be hated far more.  If you are already depressed, you'll need to be careful to not let the stress of law school and the plain mean people you'll meet affect your mental health even further (I can suggest some supplements that have helped me with my mood, *not medical advice*).  Even after you graduate, the path can be difficult.  If you see the posts of JD graduates on this website, you'll see people going years without an articling position, or being offered minimum wage to work as a lawyer post-call.  

Also, I think it's pointless to stress about getting into a Canadian school.  It is far easier for a foreign-trained lawyer to be called in Canada than a foreign-trained doctor to get licensed in Canada; I wish I had known this in undergrad when I slaved away to get a good GPA to be admitted to a Canadian school.  So if you are deadset on becoming a lawyer, then going to a foreign school won't ultimately be that big a deal.  Student loans are available for foreign schools, and their degrees only take two years (though NCA would add another year).

[Rashabon]

^

Terrible advice and divorced from reality.

 

[myth000]

1 minute ago, Rashabon said:

^

Terrible advice and divorced from reality.

 

I'm always interested in counterpoints!  The average lawyer makes around $100,000, the average doctor around $200,000.

[WiseGhost]

@myth000 

It is true that doctors are paid more and generally viewed more positively. That's not the issue with your statement. 

The issue is that you're providing bad advice by encouraging applicants who want to practice in Canada to apply to foreign schools. There is a stigma in Canada against lawyers who graduate from these schools, and this makes it especially hard to pay down student loan debt. Just because it's easier for a foreign-trained lawyer to practice in Canada than it is for a doctor with a degree from the Caribbean does not make the former path advisable. 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by WiseGhost

[myth000]

17 minutes ago, WiseGhost said:

@myth000 

It is true that doctors are paid more and generally viewed more positively. That's not the issue with your statement. 

The issue is that you're providing bad advice by encouraging applicants who want to practice in Canada to apply to foreign schools. There is a stigma in Canada against lawyers who graduate from these schools, and this makes it especially hard to pay down student loan debt. Just because it's easier for a foreign-trained lawyer to practice in Canada than it is for a doctor with a degree from the Caribbean does not make the former path advisable. 

 

There are people  graduating from Canadian law schools who are not getting articles or being offered minimum-wage post-call.  How is it advisable to ask someone to spend several more years getting a better L2 or LSAT simply to get into a Canadian law school?  If they want the law degree simply for the prestige then if they go to a foreign law school and they'll be done with it in two years, their family will consider them "lawyers" (though technically not) and then can spend the rest of the time job-hunting.  They can do the LPP and get their articles out of the in the meantime.  And stigma is only an issue if they can't afford to start their own practice.   I'd say a large percentage of people applying to law schools are very comfortable financially or have connections; certainly many worked in their dad's firm after law school.   Ofcourse, for someone from a poor background the calculation would be different (perhaps why I myself slaved away to get into a Canadian school).

Edited August 13, 2022 by myth000

[CleanHands]

5 minutes ago, myth000 said:

-Snip-

Ah, your old "everyone in law school except for me is a corrupt posh scumbag who had everything handed to them by mom and dad" routine. You forgot to randomly rant about Jagmeet Singh this time around though.

[myth000]

1 minute ago, CleanHands said:

Ah, your old "everyone in law school except for me is a corrupt posh scumbag who had everything handed to them by mom and dad" routine. You forgot to randomly rant about Jagmeet Singh this time around though.

Jagmeet Singh can be accused of both being the guy who got everything handed to him (his $20,000 watch from his dad would have paid for my entire law school tuition), AND being the one to complain about the top 1% non-stop.  Hypocrisy much?

[Hegdis]

Wait, are we doing that one or are we arguing about foreign law schools or is it the doctor comparison thing?
 

OP, the vast majority of the advice here is solid. It’s just not logical to study for a couple of weeks and then throw away your self esteem on a low LSAT score that you could very well improve with a bit more work. Give yourself an honest chance. 
 

For everyone else, if you want to argue privilege or the NDP or doctors versus lawyers or the NCA route, please consider starting a new thread. 

[Kimura]

The LSAT did not come naturally to me. I think my first blind score was a 140 or something. I did Princeton Review and was not a fan due to the fast pace and feeling like an idiot if I had questions about the difference between a sufficient and necessary assumption while the rest of the class was trying to move on. 

I ended up taking 7 Sage, wrote probably 35-40 PT's, did all of the Logic Games, some multiple times, dating back to the first ever released LSATs and did the same thing for arguments and reading comp. Lots of drilling and a timed PT every weekend. I also sought out the help of a tutor, which is when I really started to improve. All in it probably took me a year and a bit to get the score I needed to get into law school. Point being is don't get down on yourself for a few low scores when you most likely didn't apply yourself in the way you should have. 

At first I thought the LSAT was unconquerable. Now I have a Canadian JD and I'm an articling student. I'm sure you can do it too.