How much does a summer position in 1L (e.g clinic, RA, law firm) pigeonhole you into that field of law?

[DABMAN]

Hi guys I asked this question in a thread but never got a proper answer so I wanted to ask this to the larger community.

 

Thanks

[OzLaw16]

I'll admit I'm probably not the best person to answer this because my 1L summer experience ended up relating to my 2L firm job pretty closely, but I'd imagine that a 1L summer job will almost never pigeonhole you. Firms/organizations that take part in 2L summer and/or articling recruiting know that 1L law-related jobs can be difficult to come by and that many students will just take what they can get. Most 2L/articling recruiters will likely focus on the skills and general experience you got from the 1L job, not the specific area of law that the job encompassed.

[Apple]

It doesn't really have any such effect. A number of students who take 1L jobs at firm still involve themselves into the 2L recruit. As such working at a firm during 1L doesn't tie you up in any way as it relates to future work. Likewise, taking an RA position with say an immigration law professor won't force you to practice in that area. It'll just provide you something notable to put on your resume and will give you exposure. 

[PePeHalpert]

It won't.  No firm participating in the 2L or articling recruit is going to turn away a good candidate because they have a couple months of experience in a different area of law.  Having any law-related job in your 1L summer will be seen as an asset.

[DABMAN]

11 hours ago, OzLaw16 said:

I'll admit I'm probably not the best person to answer this because my 1L summer experience ended up relating to my 2L firm job pretty closely, but I'd imagine that a 1L summer job will almost never pigeonhole you. Firms/organizations that take part in 2L summer and/or articling recruiting know that 1L law-related jobs can be difficult to come by and that many students will just take what they can get. Most 2L/articling recruiters will likely focus on the skills and general experience you got from the 1L job, not the specific area of law that the job encompassed.

 

11 hours ago, Apple said:

It doesn't really have any such effect. A number of students who take 1L jobs at firm still involve themselves into the 2L recruit. As such working at a firm during 1L doesn't tie you up in any way as it relates to future work. Likewise, taking an RA position with say an immigration law professor won't force you to practice in that area. It'll just provide you something notable to put on your resume and will give you exposure. 

 

1 hour ago, PePeHalpert said:

It won't.  No firm participating in the 2L or articling recruit is going to turn away a good candidate because they have a couple months of experience in a different area of law.  Having any law-related job in your 1L summer will be seen as an asset.

Okay thanks guys so it seems like a consensus that 1L summer positions will not pigeonhole you in a field of law, but what about 2L positions and your first articling position (sorry I should've included this in my original post)?

 

Thanks again

[cherrytree]

8 minutes ago, DABMAN said:

 

 

Okay thanks guys so it seems like a consensus that 1L summer positions will not pigeonhole you in a field of law, but what about 2L positions and your first articling position (sorry I should've included this in my original post)?

 

Thanks again

I think the particular word of "pigeonholing" implies that it is a passive thing that happens to you. Which, yes, if you take zero initiative and only limit yourself to what you are given, then what you are given will be all you end up doing. If you actively want to shape what your practice looks like, make your intentions known, whether that is something directly overlapping or connecting with what you did in 1L summer or not. Seek out and ask for the type of work you want, and if the firm has it, you probably will get it on your plate unless there are extenuating circumstances. Besides, in large national firms, you would usually be asked to choose which area(s) and practice group(s) you want to focus on during your summer and articling. That process would be intentionally selecting what you want to focus on, rather than pigeonholing.

[Apple]

If you demonstrate a historical involvement with a particular area of law then I think trying to interview for position in a different area of law is likely to be more difficult. If for instance you summer and article at an employment law firm and then apply for associate positions in the area of land development you'll likely find you'll be asked why you focused so much on employment law and why you're looking to change. Now there's easy answers to provide for such questions but the more you practice in one area the more alarming it may be to a prospective employer. That's not to suggest you cannot lateral around from practice area to practice area - but you will likely be competing against others who have demonstrated an interest in the specific area of law being applied for. 

I really don't think that summering and articling in a niche area of law is sufficient to trigger alarm when it comes time to apply for associate position but certainly working in one area of law consistently for 4-5 years is likely to raise some eyebrows. 

[DABMAN]

17 minutes ago, Apple said:

If you demonstrate a historical involvement with a particular area of law then I think trying to interview for position in a different area of law is likely to be more difficult. If for instance you summer and article at an employment law firm and then apply for associate positions in the area of land development you'll likely find you'll be asked why you focused so much on employment law and why you're looking to change. Now there's easy answers to provide for such questions but the more you practice in one area the more alarming it may be to a prospective employer. That's not to suggest you cannot lateral around from practice area to practice area - but you will likely be competing against others who have demonstrated an interest in the specific area of law being applied for. 

I really don't think that summering and articling in a niche area of law is sufficient to trigger alarm when it comes time to apply for associate position but certainly working in one area of law consistently for 4-5 years is likely to raise some eyebrows. 

Hi Apple,

Thanks for responding. Just wondering if the "eyebrow raising" as you put it after working in one specific area of law for a few years and trying to move into another field is due more to the presumed lack of interest or the lack of experience in that new field (or both)? I just feel like if its the former its kind of presumptuous of employers to think that an applicant doesn't have more than one area of interest or perhaps their interests changed (is that so bad?). I mean at the end of the day the employer can hire whoever they want I totally get that but just wanted to understand from the employer's perspective a bit. 

 

Thanks

[Apple]

2 minutes ago, DABMAN said:

Hi Apple,

Thanks for responding. Just wondering if the "eyebrow raising" as you put it after working in one specific area of law for a few years and trying to move into another field is due more to the presumed lack of interest or the lack of experience in that new field (or both)? I just feel like if its the former its kind of presumptuous of employers to think that an applicant doesn't have more than one area of interest or perhaps their interests changed (is that so bad?). I mean at the end of the day the employer can hire whoever they want I totally get that but just wanted to understand from the employer's perspective a bit. 

 

Thanks

It is likely a bit of both.

As it relates to presumed interests, it may be presumptuous but it nonetheless is something employers do consider. I recall when I interviewed during 1L for several clinics and firm positions routinely being asked about why I chose the courses I did for 2L as my predicted future course (i.e., why my course interests didn't necessarily align with the job I was applying for). The MAG requested me to send a copy of both my intended 2L and 3L course selections. If given the option between someone who has shown interest in an area over someone who does not, all else considered equal, an employer is likely to take the one who has demonstrated interest. It's not a bad thing to have multiple interests, but it is questionable why one didn't expand upon those interests through either the summer, articling or years as an associate. Of course it may just be owing to limited opportunity but this is why I think the summer/articling placements are less eyebrow raising than 4-5 years focused on one narrow field. 

As it relates to experience, I do think this is a big factor. There are numerous associate job posting which require multiple years of experience in a given field in order to apply for the position. This is likely because firms want someone who is familiar in the area of practice so as to ensure quality service and less costs associated with training/assisting an incoming lawyer. I think largely this is fair for firms to do, but even if it isn't it is something that occurs. 

It's because of these two factors that I strongly urge students, whenever it is possible, to involve themselves in general practice for either a summer or articling job. It increases your exposure to different field of law, allows you to determine where your interests actually are (i.e., you may be fascinated with family law but when you practice it you may find it mundane and boring). Increased exposure to different area of practice also increases your experience with different fields of law and in my view enables for greater lateral movement within your career trajectory. There was an associate lawyer at the firm I summered with during my 1L who in fact left her job at the firm because she felt she was being pigeonholed into one specific area of practice that although she liked she did not want to practice the rest of her life in. 

[Ryn]

13 hours ago, DABMAN said:

Hi guys I asked this question in a thread but never got a proper answer so I wanted to ask this to the larger community.

 

Thanks

I suspect not much at all. Certainly it will show that you are interested in an area of law, so to that end it may be beneficial if you want to go that route. Research positions really won't have that kind of effect, though, mainly clinics will. Everyone knows research positions are going to be academic work. But that's okay too because a lot of 2L jobs will be research heavy, even though they will not be academic.

If you want to go a different direction than what you did in 1L summer or clinics you participated in, I don't think it's going to be a strike against you at all either. Firms understand that law students will have a wide variety of experiences, including ones in different areas of law. I mean, I did a bunch of moots in 1L, even though I was aiming for a solicitor role. No one had an objection when I applied for jobs discussing an interest in corporate solicitor work.

Do what makes you happy and have new experiences. A lot of those skills will be translatable anyhow. Even if you do super-specialized work in law school, no firm is going to decline to hire you based on the fact that it was completely different than the kind of work said firm does as long as you put it into the appropriate context.

[Telephantasm]

In 1L? Not at all. I had RA positions that were heavily public law focused. I'm in commercial litigation now. 1L jobs are few and far between. Firms generally get that. If you are interested in other areas of the law, just make sure to try to show interest through your coursework and/or club involvements.