Nightmare Experience with Summer Student Role

[legalegle]

Hi guys, 

This summer I worked 9-5 at a midsize law firm, as a law student. Prior to starting the role I was promised to receive a stipend (during the phone interview) at the end of my work term. 

It has been two weeks since I completed my summer position at the firm, yet I have not been paid, despite sending 2 notices. I was also told that I would not be working back in the firm as an articling student the following year (which I dont mind). I completed motions, factums, undertakings, various letters with the firm, yet at the end of the day, my principal compared my productivity relative to a 1L student, who mostly did administrative tasks at the firm. 

I was treated extremely poorly at the firm. I was constantly yelled at by my boss, belittled, made incorrect assumptions about my intellectual capaicty, and he made occasional racist comments about the people of my nationality while I was a few meters away.  I took a lot of shit the past 3 months, really had to maintain my composure several times. 

I am extremely upset as I gave up a 5-figure pay-check for another non-law summer job I had been offered for this summer. I could have used this summer to make some money and pay off my law school debt. My principal did not stay true stay to his word. 

Oh but it does not end there. When I asked for using him as a reference to future employers, he said he will give an honest review. This does not sound promising. In the business world, it is basic custom to provide good references, unless if the former employee literally burned the workplace down or did something illegal (fraud, embezzelment, gross negligence). 

At the end of this nightmare I lost:

- opportunity costs to make money in the summer

- Never received my promised stipend

- Treated like crap

- Uncertain reference (impacting whether its safe to use this principal as a contact person for articling applications)

The reason he does not want to pay up is because he knows I cant to do anything, due to our power imbalance. But, as an aspring advocate, I want to prove him wrong and put him in his place. I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him. What is stopping me is whether going after a former employer is a right step to take so early in my career. Does anyone have pointers on what I can do here? I feel exploited and hoodwinked throughout this horrible experience. 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by legalegle

[epeeist]

@legalegle Sorry to hear. My ideal suggestion is to get knowledgeable advice from a lawyer with a practical bent. Meaning don't follow my or anyone else's online advice.

May cost you a bit of money for an hour or two, and I suspect the advice might be do nothing, but at least even if advised to and you do nothing, you hopefully won't be wondering for years if you should have done something different, because you will have obtained advice rather than just wondering. And maybe the advice isn't to do nothing but to have them send a demand letter on their letterhead or make an ethics complaint or something - I don't know it's not my field and neither do you. And consulting a lawyer professionally means you get confidential knowledgeable advice. LSO in Ontario (for example) has directory of lawyers offering free initial consultations.

I'm a lawyer and I've still retained lawyers on my own behalf several times to get independent unbiased and more knowledgeable advice.

[myth000]

1 hour ago, legalegle said:

The reason he does not want to pay up is because he knows I cant to do anything, due to our power imbalance. But, as an aspring advocate, I want to prove him wrong and put him in his place. I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him. What is stopping me is whether going after a former employer is a right step to take so early in my career. Does anyone have pointers on what I can do here? I feel exploited and hoodwinked throughout this horrible experience. 

 

Definitely a tricky situation.   You'll have to weigh your ideals against some harsh practical realities.   It's probably not worth hiring an employment lawyer for a couple of thousand in stolen wages, but it's still good to have a consultation regarding your legal options.  You could bring up your issues of wage theft and incivility with the LSO as well as you noted.   If it was me, first I'd consult with the Career Services Office at my law school and the student union representatives.   This is probably a common issue for which there is some precedent regarding how it is to be handled.  

[ramoj]

For future situations, make sure you get this "promise" in writing. Was there not a contract? I am so confused given we are (or will be) lawyers. Unless I am missing something, can you clarify if there was a contract in place?

[BlockedQuebecois]

1 hour ago, jomar said:

For future situations, make sure you get this "promise" in writing. Was there not a contract? I am so confused given we are (or will be) lawyers. Unless I am missing something, can you clarify if there was a contract in place?

You'll learn in 1L that a promise of money in exchange for work is a contract, whether or not it is reduced to writing. 

It's not terribly uncommon for students summering at firms to do so without a written employment contract. A lot of my friends that summered at small and mid-size shops did so without a written contract. Most of the big firms will have you sign an offer letter at some point, but even then a lot of them will wait months after the recruit before they do that. 

[CleanHands]

OP, it would be irresponsible of anyone here to recommend a course of action beyond talking to the right people about this IRL (which people have already done). I was going to make the point about contracts not needing to be in writing, but @BlockedQuebecoisninja'd me.

What I will add is that if you have the right ground to stand on here legally (which I can't say, not having been privy to your conversations with your employer--although I have no doubt that morally and ethically you were wronged), if your employer isn't an idiot (and that is sadly quite an "if") it should be worth a few thousand dollars covering the stipend they promised for them to make this go away. See: the Acumen/Melissa Ojanen situation--that was a PR disaster for the firm and lawyer and the legal community rallied behind the student. I mention this because you probably feel powerless right now and are worried about a fight reflecting poorly on you (rather than your employer), but I wanted to convey that you aren't totally without leverage in this situation (if your employer cares at all about their reputation).

Edited August 14, 2022 by CleanHands

[luckycharm]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:10 PM, legalegle said:

Hi guys, 

This summer I worked 9-5 at a midsize law firm, as a law student. Prior to starting the role I was promised to receive a stipend (during the phone interview) at the end of my work term. 

It has been two weeks since I completed my summer position at the firm, yet I have not been paid, despite sending 2 notices. I was also told that I would not be working back in the firm as an articling student the following year (which I dont mind). I completed motions, factums, undertakings, various letters with the firm, yet at the end of the day, my principal compared my productivity relative to a 1L student, who mostly did administrative tasks at the firm. 

I was treated extremely poorly at the firm. I was constantly yelled at by my boss, belittled, made incorrect assumptions about my intellectual capaicty, and he made occasional racist comments about the people of my nationality while I was a few meters away.  I took a lot of shit the past 3 months, really had to maintain my composure several times. 

I am extremely upset as I gave up a 5-figure pay-check for another non-law summer job I had been offered for this summer. I could have used this summer to make some money and pay off my law school debt. My principal did not stay true stay to his word. 

Oh but it does not end there. When I asked for using him as a reference to future employers, he said he will give an honest review. This does not sound promising. In the business world, it is basic custom to provide good references, unless if the former employee literally burned the workplace down or did something illegal (fraud, embezzelment, gross negligence). 

At the end of this nightmare I lost:

- opportunity costs to make money in the summer

- Never received my promised stipend

- Treated like crap

- Uncertain reference (impacting whether its safe to use this principal as a contact person for articling applications)

The reason he does not want to pay up is because he knows I cant to do anything, due to our power imbalance. But, as an aspring advocate, I want to prove him wrong and put him in his place. I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him. What is stopping me is whether going after a former employer is a right step to take so early in my career. Does anyone have pointers on what I can do here? I feel exploited and hoodwinked throughout this horrible experience. 

 

 I was promised to receive a stipend - Did the interviewer  mention a specific amount?

[99problems]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:10 AM, legalegle said:

I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him.

To my knowledge, you cannot file a complaint anonymously. So there would be a record of you going against your former employer. I do not think it is worth the stigma, especially so when you are to go through the recruitment process very soon. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

I obviously don’t represent all lawyers, but assuming the facts as stated are true—stipend was promised unconditionally and not paid following the conclusion of the summer—I have a hard time believing there would be any stigma against the student for filling a complaint after they tried to resolve it quietly. 

Even if you assume they were the worst student ever, if one of my friends told me they hired a student and refused to pay them because they sucked, I would think my friend was being an asshole. 

With that said, two weeks is quick to be going to the law society, especially in August when people are busy with things other than work. I would spend more time trying to resolve this other ways and contact the law society in a few months if it isn’t resolved. 

[ramoj]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:01 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

You'll learn in 1L that a promise of money in exchange for work is a contract, whether or not it is reduced to writing. 

It's not terribly uncommon for students summering at firms to do so without a written employment contract. A lot of my friends that summered at small and mid-size shops did so without a written contract. Most of the big firms will have you sign an offer letter at some point, but even then a lot of them will wait months after the recruit before they do that. 

As an incoming 1L, thanks for this!

[JustHereNotStaying]

Always be weary of a small to midsize law firm unwilling to put anything in writing - I have heard horror stories where up and coming lawyers are promised a certain salary and last minute the firm states sorry we had a tough year and you need to take a pay cut. 

[123]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:10 PM, legalegle said:

It has been two weeks since I completed my summer position at the firm, yet I have not been paid, despite sending 2 notices. I was also told that I would not be working back in the firm as an articling student the following year (which I dont mind). I completed motions, factums, undertakings, various letters with the firm, yet at the end of the day, my principal compared my productivity relative to a 1L student, who mostly did administrative tasks at the firm. 

On 8/13/2022 at 1:10 PM, legalegle said:

The reason he does not want to pay up is because he knows I cant to do anything, due to our power imbalance. But, as an aspring advocate, I want to prove him wrong and put him in his place. I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him. What is stopping me is whether going after a former employer is a right step to take so early in my career. Does anyone have pointers on what I can do here? I feel exploited and hoodwinked throughout this horrible experience. 

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

With that said, two weeks is quick to be going to the law society, especially in August when people are busy with things other than work. I would spend more time trying to resolve this other ways and contact the law society in a few months if it isn’t resolved. 

It wasn't 100% clear to me whether the lawyer (i) has refused to pay or (ii) just hasn't paid and OP is making inferences about willingness to pay based upon the lawyer's general assholery. Especially if it's the latter, I agree with @BlockedQuebecois that in reality, two weeks isn't a particularly long time to go without getting paid by a lawyer. When I've been on contract for other lawyers, it hasn't been unusual to wait longer before being paid in full, and I usually allow for a reasonable grace period before following-up/escalating.

Obviously, I don't want to get into legal advice here. But it's not particularly controversial to say that you do want to have explored whether informal resolution is possible, especially since the first step the LSO lists in the complaints process is to determine whether you actually want to file a complaint or whether there's another way to resolve the issue. So like BQ says, attempts at resolution are to be encouraged.

3 hours ago, 99problems said:

So there would be a record of you going against your former employer. I do not think it is worth the stigma, especially so when you are to go through the recruitment process very soon. 

I think that depends on what you mean by "record".

Quote

Confidentiality

In fairness to the person you are complaining about, the Law Society will share with that person some or all of the information and documents you send us.

Complaints and investigations are otherwise confidential unless the Law Society has begun regulatory proceedings. Section 49.12 of the Law Society Act restricts our ability to share information obtained through the investigation with you and with the person you are complaining about.  Confidentiality continues to be required even after the complaint has been addressed (without regulatory proceedings). 

Yeah, there would be some investigation file sitting around the LSO after filing. But unless or until the LSO begins regulatory proceedings, the LSO usually isn't going to make the fact of the complaint public.

Edited August 15, 2022 by realpseudonym

[legalegle]

Hi team,

thank you all for providing your suggestions here. It is extremely pleasant to realize there are people in the legal community willing to help an anonymous student online.

[mod edit to remove identifying information]

Edited August 17, 2022 by TobyFlenderson

[legalegle]

I must add, that on a candid assessment, I was an average 2L summer student. 

I wrote motions, factums, pleadings, made court visits. Basically, all the standard tasks that summer students do. There was a learning curve of course, so I was slow in getting things done, but it was always completed on time and without complaints. 

I did not make any signficant errors throughout my time there. However, my principal would get very worked up when digital and physical files were not organized to his liking. 

Regardless, I did not set the firm on fire or anything during my time there. 

[FellowTraveler]

1 hour ago, legalegle said:

Hi team, 

Thank you all for providing your suggestions here. It is extremely pleasant to realize there are people in the legal community willing to help an anonymous student online. 

As for me, I have done a lot of thinking and I beleive the wisest action is to let the matter go. [Redacted]

Honestly, I don't know why he wouldn't pay a $1.5-2k stipend, as it would have been the wisest business decision drom his end. My referals paid him about $6k in downpayments alone for his services (he doesn't nornally receive invoices this large). His poor business judgment probably reflects why he was never able to make name partner or run his own firm. 

So, I know absolutely nothing about the Toronto commercial litigation realm, but if I did I would almost certainly be able to figure out who this person is.

I get that you're (understandably) upset about this, but I would strongly suggest you edit this post to remove any and all identifying details. I won't pretend to know the potential legal consequences, but this is the kind of thing that might very quickly get back to them and open the door to the harassment/blackballing you are concerned about.

Also, the threats aren't a great look. Yeah, they sounds like an asshole and there's no way I wouldn't do the same, but sometimes you need to say the quiet part... quietly.

Edited August 16, 2022 by FellowTraveler

[epeeist]

@legalegle I still suggest you consult a lawyer. I mean, I might be worried that doing nothing = the lawyer badmouths you regardless. Consulting a lawyer even an initial consultation isn't committing you to anything.

I was once defamed by opposing counsel in writing to the court, and in that situation (with discussion with other lawyers and LSUC [as it then was] confidential ethics advice and researching qualified privilege and considering best interests of my client) I ended up deciding to do nothing beyond sending a response to the court cc'd to that opposing counsel pointing out their falsehoods (an ethics complaint and/or defamation action notwithstanding Streisand effect were both options), but I both conducted research and got confidential advice on my options first.

@FellowTraveler made good points about too much info and threats.

[Rashabon]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:04 AM, legalegle said:

Hi team, 

Thank you all for providing your suggestions here. It is extremely pleasant to realize there are people in the legal community willing to help an anonymous student online. 

[mod edit]

This feels made up not gonna lie.

[Closing Folders]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:10 PM, legalegle said:

Hi guys, 

This summer I worked 9-5 at a midsize law firm, as a law student. Prior to starting the role I was promised to receive a stipend (during the phone interview) at the end of my work term. 

It has been two weeks since I completed my summer position at the firm, yet I have not been paid, despite sending 2 notices. I was also told that I would not be working back in the firm as an articling student the following year (which I dont mind). I completed motions, factums, undertakings, various letters with the firm, yet at the end of the day, my principal compared my productivity relative to a 1L student, who mostly did administrative tasks at the firm. 

I was treated extremely poorly at the firm. I was constantly yelled at by my boss, belittled, made incorrect assumptions about my intellectual capaicty, and he made occasional racist comments about the people of my nationality while I was a few meters away.  I took a lot of shit the past 3 months, really had to maintain my composure several times. 

I am extremely upset as I gave up a 5-figure pay-check for another non-law summer job I had been offered for this summer. I could have used this summer to make some money and pay off my law school debt. My principal did not stay true stay to his word. 

Oh but it does not end there. When I asked for using him as a reference to future employers, he said he will give an honest review. This does not sound promising. In the business world, it is basic custom to provide good references, unless if the former employee literally burned the workplace down or did something illegal (fraud, embezzelment, gross negligence). 

At the end of this nightmare I lost:

- opportunity costs to make money in the summer

- Never received my promised stipend

- Treated like crap

- Uncertain reference (impacting whether its safe to use this principal as a contact person for articling applications)

The reason he does not want to pay up is because he knows I cant to do anything, due to our power imbalance. But, as an aspring advocate, I want to prove him wrong and put him in his place. I am considering filing a complaint with the LSO or raising some sort of legal action against him. What is stopping me is whether going after a former employer is a right step to take so early in my career. Does anyone have pointers on what I can do here? I feel exploited and hoodwinked throughout this horrible experience. 

 

I’m sorry to hear. Did the other summer students (assuming there were any) receive a stipend? It might help your case. 

[myth000]

Another injustice covered up in the legal profession.  Excellent outcome.  As noted by Jomar, it was really your fault for not getting the promise in writing.  Or as noted by Rashabon, you are making up the whole thing.  

[legalegle]

14 hours ago, Closing Folders said:

I’m sorry to hear. Did the other summer students (assuming there were any) receive a stipend? It might help your case. 

No, I don't talk about salary with other students, we were not that close, aside from morning and lunch small talk. 

Also Idk why people think this post is made up. 

I hardly use this website, why would I spend time writing a big post for something that did not happen. 

Besides, I trust the geniuinity of Canlawforum as a resource for law students and lawyers, otherwise, I would not raise my concerns here if I thought it was medium for trolling. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by legalegle

[legalegle]

13 hours ago, myth000 said:

Another injustice covered up in the legal profession.  Excellent outcome.  As noted by Jomar, it was really your fault for not getting the promise in writing.  Or as noted by Rashabon, you are making up the whole thing.  

Yes, normally I would get an employment agreement in writing (I will from now on).

But to provide contenxt, I got the job through cold calling the firm. I was a hungry 2L student seeking private sector experience. It also seems to be the norm that employers working in small to midsize firms that dont participate in student recruits, do not administer employment contracts for summer students. 

When you're a 2L student with no experience in the corporate or legal sector, you really are a dime a dozen. So when given the offer, I jumped right at it, and didnt ask for a contract, cause I trsuted the good faith of an experienced partner at a reputable firm.  

Edited August 17, 2022 by legalegle

[myth000]

23 minutes ago, legalegle said:

Yes, normally I would get an employment agreement in writing (I will from now on).

But to provide contenxt, I got the job through cold calling the firm. I was a hungry 2L student seeking private sector experience. It also seems to be the norm that employers working in small to midsize firms that dont participate in student recruits, do not administer employment contracts for summer students. 

When you're a 2L student with no experience in the corporate or legal sector, you really are a dime a dozen. So when given the offer, I jumped right at it, and didnt ask for a contract, cause I trsuted the good faith of an experienced partner at a reputable firm.  

I was being sarcastic with reference to the insensitive comments by Rashabon and Jomar.   I understand why someone might forego getting a promise in writing as a way to show initial trust and goodwill, especially when it's a reputable firm and the job is of short duration.   

[SNAILS]

My suggestion would be forget about this bad experience ( @legalegle )   and learn from it moving forward. I believe I can accurately determine from what I have read that you have no proof payment was every firmly promised to you. The boss may very well be an asshole, or perhaps the two of you simply did not sync with one another.

Edited August 21, 2022 by SNAILS