I need reassurance and/or some tough love

[Boris]

Greetings from the prairies,

Like many others, I have just received my LSAT-Flex score for June 2021 and, despite not being a bad score (163), I cannot help but feel a little bit disappointed and concerned about my admission chances.

For context, my GPA is somewhere between 3.33 (OLSAS) and 3.4 (as calculated on my university report card), or around a B+ for simplicity's sake. My ECs are reasonably good I believe (I was a representative for my student union for roughly 2 years and volunteered as a research assistant for around the same length of time). I have also been working full-time as an Officer for the Canadian Armed Forces for over 3 years now (4 years by the time I submit my applications), but I am not too sure to what extent this is relevant or if this will improve my chances.

I plan on retaking the LSAT in August and possibly in October if necessary, because I think I can improve my score (although this is easier said than done). In any case, I guess what I'm asking is:

- Am I overthinking this whole situation? Like I said, I am a little bit apprehensive about my chances (mostly because of my GPA, which I believe falls short of the competitive range), but maybe I am being overdramatic.

- If needed, to what extent should I improve my LSAT score in order to render my file competitive?

- Realistically, is there anything else I could do to improve my resume?

Any sort of reassurance and/or tough love/disappointed-parent-type talk is more than welcome.

I hope everyone is having an enjoyable summer so far and if you are in one the areas affected by the heat wave, I hope you are staying safe!

Best regards,

borisviandu

[DABMAN]

Depends on where you're applying

[Boris]

I plan on applying to the University of Manitoba, every university in Ontario (with the exception of Toronto and York), as well as Dalhousie.

Realistically, I will go anywhere they are willing to take me. However, I am still debating whether I will send applications to any university in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

 

[LMP]

24 minutes ago, borisviandu said:

Greetings from the prairies,

Like many others, I have just received my LSAT-Flex score for June 2021 and, despite not being a bad score (163), I cannot help but feel a little bit disappointed and concerned about my admission chances.

For context, my GPA is somewhere between 3.33 (OLSAS) and 3.4 (as calculated on my university report card), or around a B+ for simplicity's sake. My ECs are reasonably good I believe (I was a representative for my student union for roughly 2 years and volunteered as a research assistant for around the same length of time). I have also been working full-time as an Officer for the Canadian Armed Forces for over 3 years now (4 years by the time I submit my applications), but I am not too sure to what extent this is relevant or if this will improve my chances.

I plan on retaking the LSAT in August and possibly in October if necessary, because I think I can improve my score (although this is easier said than done). In any case, I guess what I'm asking is:

- Am I overthinking this whole situation? Like I said, I am a little bit apprehensive about my chances (mostly because of my GPA, which I believe falls short of the competitive range), but maybe I am being overdramatic.

- If needed, to what extent should I improve my LSAT score in order to render my file competitive?

- Realistically, is there anything else I could do to improve my resume?

Any sort of reassurance and/or tough love/disappointed-parent-type talk is more than welcome.

I hope everyone is having an enjoyable summer so far and if you are in one the areas affected by the heat wave, I hope you are staying safe!

Best regards,

borisviandu

We have very, very similar profiles (eeriely so).

I had a 3.4, 164 and also served as an officer in the CAF. I had a very good cycle so all things being equal, so should you. 

Things you need to focus on:

Write an excellent personal statement

If you have a stronger last two years, demonstrate how your marks improved, show an upward trend. 

If you had any factors that lowered your GPA, mention them. For me, I had a terrible first year followed by three increasingly strong years. This was evident to anyone looking at my marks but I made sure call it out specifically. 

When writing about CAF activities, be conscious that the reader may not have any clue what you are talking about. You can't just say "As OOW for SMBEX I personally directed the activities of our Navcoms when an engine sour halted our flag Quebec" (OK, that's an extreme example and ridiculous example but you get what I mean).  

I would also recommend applying broadly. Apply to multiple schools and don't be afraid to make use of categories other than the general one. Chances are you meet the criteria of at least one.

6 minutes ago, borisviandu said:

I plan on applying to the University of Manitoba, every university in Ontario (with the exception of Toronto and York), as well as Dalhousie.

Realistically, I will go anywhere they are willing to take me. However, I am still debating whether I will send applications to any university in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

 

UofM likes CAF applicants. I'd add UNB as well. As I said, we have very similar profiles and they got back to me in like, October. I'd suspect you have a good shot.

[Boris]

Hi LMP,

That is definitely reassuring, thank you for the information and advices!

Unfortunately, my grades followed a downward trend throughout my university years (not a dramatic one, but still easily noticeable). I don't have any reasonable way of justifying it other than I lacked the maturity, the drive and the motivation to really put in the effort (which my short time in the CAF has corrected in many ways). I am open to mentioning it in my personal statement, although to me, it does sound like a cheap excuse to justify lower grades, and I could see how admission boards might think the same. But I might be wrong.

It's good to know about UofM, UNB and the possible alternative admission categories; I'll definitely keep that in mind when I'll be submitting applications. Thanks again!

Cheers,

borisviandu

edit: spelling

Edited June 30, 2021 by borisviandu

[Ryn]

1 minute ago, borisviandu said:

I am open to mentioning it in my personal statement, although to me, it does sound like a cheap excuse to justify lower grades, and I could see how admission boards might think the same. But I might be wrong.

I don't have much other advice for you other than this: certainly you should mention it. As a former adcom member, it did irritate me if I didn't see an explanation for poor grades. I may not have weighted the explanation very much, but it certainly provides some needed context. People frequently remark, "don't draw attention to poor grades" (hint: we already see your grades) or "it will sound like you're making excuses". The latter one is silly, because worst case scenario you are in the same position as before: someone with not a very good application. I literally cannot fathom a situation where we would otherwise admit someone with low grades but suddenly because their PS was making excuses we go nah and put it in the reject pile.

In your case, admitting you didn't have maturity, which you later gained while being in the CAF, is insightful and I'm sure will help the person looking at your application to put everything into perspective. It won't guarantee you admission and may not even help all that much, but it won't hurt.

[luckycharm]

25 minutes ago, borisviandu said:

Hi LMP,

That is definitely reassuring, thank you for the information and advices!

Unfortunately, my grades followed a downward trend throughout my university years (not a dramatic one, but still easily noticeable). I don't have any reasonable way of justifying it other than I lacked the maturity, the drive and the motivation to really put in the effort (which my short time in the CAF has corrected in many ways). I am open to mentioning it in my personal statement, although to me, it does sound like a cheap excuse to justify lower grades, and I could see how admission boards might think the same. But I might be wrong.

It's good to know about UofM, UNB and the possible alternative admission categories; I'll definitely keep that in mind when I'll be submitting applications. Thanks again!

Cheers,

borisviandu

edit: spelling

What are your Best 2 years like?

How many years of working experience will you have by Sept 2022?

Edited June 30, 2021 by luckycharm

[Boris]

Hi Ryn,

Thank you so much for the insight, I really appreciate it! Viewed that way, it does make a lot of sense that providing context won't hurt, even if it doesn't necessarily help!

Thanks,

borisviandu

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, luckycharm said:

What are your Best 2 years like?

How many years of working experience will you have by Sept 2022?

Hi luckycharm,

I am not too sure how to calculate my B2. Do I simply take my best 60 credits, or do they have to be in the same years?

By September 2022, I will have 4 years and 9 months of working experience in the CAF.

[koolaidjoe]

I had almost the exact same stats last year. I was waitlisted at 3 schools and accepted into 1. If you're willing to go to Manitoba, I'd consider Sask as well. Their average admitted GPA is lower than many other schools.

I did spend a lot of time on my personal statement. I've never revised a single-page document so many times in my life. I addressed the low grades in a roundabout way by mentioning that I worked part time throughout my degree to pay for tuition. I think you could find a way to make your grade explanation interesting and turn it into a positive ie your experiences with the CAF helped you find your purpose/motivation/direction. I also found reading other personal statements quite helpful, U of T posted a few good samples here.

Best of luck!

[luckycharm]

1 hour ago, borisviandu said:

Hi luckycharm,

I am not too sure how to calculate my B2. Do I simply take my best 60 credits, or do they have to be in the same years?

By September 2022, I will have 4 years and 9 months of working experience in the CAF.

Contact Western University and see if you qualify as " mature"

B2 is for Queens.  Best of any two full time years. Can be Year 1 and Year 3 or any combination.

did you work any where before CAF?

[Boris]

Hi everyone,

I apologize for the late response. Once again, thank you for all the answers/advices/information, I really appreciate it!

On 6/30/2021 at 1:02 PM, koolaidjoe said:

I had almost the exact same stats last year. I was waitlisted at 3 schools and accepted into 1. If you're willing to go to Manitoba, I'd consider Sask as well. Their average admitted GPA is lower than many other schools.

I did spend a lot of time on my personal statement. I've never revised a single-page document so many times in my life. I addressed the low grades in a roundabout way by mentioning that I worked part time throughout my degree to pay for tuition. I think you could find a way to make your grade explanation interesting and turn it into a positive ie your experiences with the CAF helped you find your purpose/motivation/direction. I also found reading other personal statements quite helpful, U of T posted a few good samples here.

Best of luck!

Good idea, I will probably send an application to Saskatchewan as well then. And thank you for the link, it'll definitely be useful!

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:49 PM, luckycharm said:

Contact Western University and see if you qualify as " mature"

B2 is for Queens.  Best of any two full time years. Can be Year 1 and Year 3 or any combination.

did you work any where before CAF?

That's a good idea, I didn't know I could possibly qualify for a mature application. I'll ask them.

I believe my B2 would be around 3.65.

And no, apart from part-time summer jobs as a waiter or lifeguard, CAF was my first real job.

 

Cheers,

borisviandu

[dimsum1]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:22 PM, borisviandu said:

Hi luckycharm,

I am not too sure how to calculate my B2. Do I simply take my best 60 credits, or do they have to be in the same years?

By September 2022, I will have 4 years and 9 months of working experience in the CAF.

I'm also in the CAF and have heard (anecdotally) that Ottawa also looks highly upon CAF applicants.  Prob not to the same extent as U of M or UNB, but it's there.

However, if you're willing to wait until Sept 2023, then you're within Mature Applicant criteria for everywhere except potentially Ottawa (their criteria is 5 years after any post-secondary, including grad school).  

Are you looking at applying MLTP, or as a reservist?

Edited July 14, 2021 by dimsum1

[Boris]

6 hours ago, dimsum1 said:

I'm also in the CAF and have heard (anecdotally) that Ottawa also looks highly upon CAF applicants.  Prob not to the same extent as U of M or UNB, but it's there.

However, if you're willing to wait until Sept 2023, then you're within Mature Applicant criteria for everywhere except potentially Ottawa (their criteria is 5 years after any post-secondary, including grad school).  

Are you looking at applying MLTP, or as a reservist?

Hey dimsum,

That's interesting to know, I was not aware of that about uOttawa!

I'm pretty much set on applying for Fall 2022. However, if I end up not being admitted in any university, then yes, I would probably reapply for 2023 as a Mature Applicant and take additional university courses to increase my GPA in the meantime.

Funny enough, I was firm on my decision to leave the CAF until I brought it up to my CoC. I have to admit that already having a foot in the door and having a steady income, combined with subsidized education and the other advantages of being a federal employee make it very tempting to stick around longer. Definitely something I'll seriously and thoroughly think about and weigh the pros and cons. Also probably going to have a chat with a PSO or career manager in the upcoming months to talk about all the ramifications of OTing versus releasing.

I don't know where you are in your law journey, but if you want, we can stay in touch and I can share the intel I have once I get it.

Cheers,

borisviandu

[LMP]

2 minutes ago, borisviandu said:

Hey dimsum,

That's interesting to know, I was not aware of that about uOttawa!

I'm pretty much set on applying for Fall 2022. However, if I end up not being admitted in any university, then yes, I would probably reapply for 2023 as a Mature Applicant and take additional university courses to increase my GPA in the meantime.

Funny enough, I was firm on my decision to leave the CAF until I brought it up to my CoC. I have to admit that already having a foot in the door and having a steady income, combined with subsidized education and the other advantages of being a federal employee make it very tempting to stick around longer. Definitely something I'll seriously and thoroughly think about and weigh the pros and cons. Also probably going to have a chat with a PSO or career manager in the upcoming months to talk about all the ramifications of OTing versus releasing.

I don't know where you are in your law journey, but if you want, we can stay in touch and I can share the intel I have once I get it.

Cheers,

borisviandu

Be aware that if you take courses, some schools may not consider you a mature student any longer. 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, LMP said:

Be aware that if you take courses, some schools may not consider you a mature student any longer. 

Oh true, I didn't think of that! Definitely will keep that in mind. Thank you!

 

[dimsum1]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:19 PM, borisviandu said:

I don't know where you are in your law journey, but if you want, we can stay in touch and I can share the intel I have once I get it.

Hi borisviandu,

I'm pretty early into the journey - I wrote my LSAT and have submitted the MLTP documents required.  I'm waiting for schools to open up applications for the 2022 school year.  

Definitely talk to the PSO about it and other MLTP folks (if you know any).  I know some who helped me along.  I think you wouldn't lose anything if you applied to MLTP anyway - if you don't get in, you were planning on leaving the CAF anyway so that option is still available.  The big career implication is that you have extra service (2 months for every month of school) so it works out to 48 months (3 years with 8 months of school per year, times 2) - they don't count the summers (or they shouldn't).  

I'm not on here frequently but feel free to DM me with any questions.  If you have easy access to DWAN, DM me your email and we can chat there.

[SNAILS]

It's been a while since I have read and responded to a "chances" thread. It seems to be that time of year again where people are looking at the following, and not the current admissions cycle.

So a 3.3 GPA, 163 LSAT and years of quality life experience (CAF Officer?) I would say, "yes, you will get into law school."

Whether you will get into every law school you apply to is a different question, of course. But you said you are happy with any law school. Apply broadly.