UBC vs UofT summer placement stats

[helloworld123]

Hi, everyone! I was wondering if anyone had information on UBC's 1L/2L/3L summer placement statistics. UofT posts theirs publicly (https://www.law.utoronto.ca/student-life/career-development-office/career-statistics) but I haven't been able to find UBC's. Any numbers or anecdotal info much appreciated! 🙂

[CleanHands]

Dunno about summer placements but here's some info on articles (which, by implication, gives some insight into summer placements as well): 

 

[BorjaCesare]

I go to UBC. I can state with absolute certainty that UofT has better placement stats for 1L summer. This is in large part because of the Toronto legal market and that many (but not all) major Toronto firms have 1L summer positions. There are a few 1L positions in Vancouver, but the few who have 1L summer placements from UBC usually land in Calgary (which also has more 1L summer offerings). In 2L summer, at UBC - you are looking at ~ 40% who get jobs in the traditional OCI process (though I think when considering all legal jobs, around 60% of students have something that is at least JD advantage in their 2L summer). Without even opening the link, I assume that UofT has better numbers. But ultimately, and this was a huge consideration for me, ~ 95% of folks land somewhere shortly after graduating from UBC (which I guess goes to your "3L summer" stats): https://allard.ubc.ca/career-services-office/student-career-resources/career-outcomes. 

In short, UofT is better for summer placement. Significantly for 1L. Though the advantage decreases as you get to 2L summer and post-graduation. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

14 minutes ago, BorjaCesare said:

In 2L summer, at UBC - you are looking at ~ 40% who get jobs in the traditional OCI process (though I think when considering all legal jobs, around 60% of students have something that is at least JD advantage in their 2L summer).

It’s closer to 28%, at least according to ultra vires. Although I think there are a handful of OCI employers missing from UV’s report. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[CleanHands]

17 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

It’s closer to 28%, at least according to ultra vires. Although I think there are a handful of OCI employers missing from UV’s report. 

That link also only accounts for Vancouver.

[BlockedQuebecois]

8 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

That link also only accounts for Vancouver.

UBC sends a pretty insignificant number of students out of province via formal recruits. According to UV, it sent 3 students to Calgary as part of its 2022 2L recruit and 2 students (only one more than powerhouse Australian law school Bond) to Toronto.  If you account for those two recruits, it’s 30% of students, not 28. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[helloworld123]

11 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

UBC sends a pretty insignificant number of students out of province via formal recruits. According to UV, it sent 3 students to Calgary as part of its 2022 2L recruit and 2 students (only one more than powerhouse Australian law school Bond) to Toronto.  If you account for those two recruits, it’s 30% of students, not 28. 

Wow, maybe this post should have been titled Bond vs UBC summer placement stats XD. Anyway, thank you for the info!

53 minutes ago, BorjaCesare said:

I go to UBC. I can state with absolute certainty that UofT has better placement stats for 1L summer. This is in large part because of the Toronto legal market and that many (but not all) major Toronto firms have 1L summer positions. There are a few 1L positions in Vancouver, but the few who have 1L summer placements from UBC usually land in Calgary (which also has more 1L summer offerings). In 2L summer, at UBC - you are looking at ~ 40% who get jobs in the traditional OCI process (though I think when considering all legal jobs, around 60% of students have something that is at least JD advantage in their 2L summer). Without even opening the link, I assume that UofT has better numbers. But ultimately, and this was a huge consideration for me, ~ 95% of folks land somewhere shortly after graduating from UBC (which I guess goes to your "3L summer" stats): https://allard.ubc.ca/career-services-office/student-career-resources/career-outcomes. 

In short, UofT is better for summer placement. Significantly for 1L. Though the advantage decreases as you get to 2L summer and post-graduation. 

Gotcha! Thanks for the detailed response. 

[BorjaCesare]

4 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

It’s closer to 28%, at least according to ultra vires. Although I think there are a handful of OCI employers missing from UV’s report. 

I think UV is a good resource but I don't think your ~28% number is fair. Here is why:

Class size for 2L 2022 summer: 186 (source: https://allard.ubc.ca/sites/default/files/2022-05/grade_dist_2122_0.pdf)

Ultra Vires Vancouver 2022 Reported Numbers: 55 (source: http://ultravires.ca/2021/11/vancouver-2022-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers/) 

Ultra Vires Vancouver 2022 Unreported Numbers: >7 (I didn't have the patience to go through it all but the latest ultra vires had less than a 2/3 response rate. Nonetheless, I know Osler has 5, Harper Grey has 2)

Ultra Vires Toronto & Calgary Reported Numbers: 5 (2 & 3, respectively)

Total with a little bit of further inquiry: >67.

67/186 = 36%.

I mean, I'm not saying I can get to 40% and I don't want to rely on a rounding technicality for a consolation point or a "gotcha." But it is close to 40%. At the very least, closer to 40% than it is to 28%. 

[Byzantine]

Here's what the UBC CSO said in a recent email. "Typically ~150 2L students apply for at least 1 OCI summer job with only 25-35% of the 2L class (50-70 students) securing one of these positions in Vancouver, Calgary, or Toronto. An additional 25 -35% of the 2L class secure a law-related summer job at another type of legal employer later in Term 2 – i.e. with a small firm, government, public interest organization, UBC, or in-house counsel department." 

[TheDevilIKnow]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:53 PM, Byzantine said:

150 2L students apply for at least 1 OCI summer job with only 25-35% of the 2L class (50-70 students) securing one of these positions in Vancouver, Calgary, or Toronto.

Seems like the UBC CSO is not amazing at math, as 25-35% of ~150 is 38-53 students, which is pretty far off from "50-70".

I'm not trying to be pedantic, though, and argue for some other number that is "correct." I think the numbers are likely to vary a fair bit year to year and there's not much point trying to come up with an exact figure. Between 30 and 40% seems reasonable, though.

UVic was also likely somewhere between 27-30% for last years 2Ls (of which I was one). At least 34 people between Vancouver and Calagary, likely a few more from non-reporting firms... I am not certain of the denominator  (a little hazy when including the JID), but likely around 125. Not that anyone asked. 😉

[BlockedQuebecois]

20 minutes ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

Seems like the UBC CSO is not amazing at math, as 25-35% of ~150 is 38-53 students, which is pretty far off from "50-70".

They’re saying two separate things: (1) 150 students apply to at least one of the three identified recruits; (2) 25-35% of the class get jobs through the one of the three identified recruits. 

They’re not saying 25-35% of those that apply get jobs, which is what your calculation reflects. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[TheDevilIKnow]

Yikes; i read it twice, but clearly missed the different denominator. My apologies to the UBC CSO, whose math is better than my reading comprehension.