Articling positions with less work

[crepetastic]

Hi there! I'm a recent graduate of a Canadian law school. I'm wondering whether there are any articling positions that would require comparatively less work to, for examples, corporate jobs, jobs at full service firms, or jobs at Bay Street firms? I.E., instead of working 60-80 hours a week, I would prefer to work 35-50 hours a week. Money isn't an issue. 

I don't want to go into specifics as to the reasons why, but I will say that this isn't a matter of laziness--it's a lifestyle choice. Would anyone here be willing to provide some suggestions? I have no immediate desire to work on Bay Street, I certainly don't need a glamorous position, and am flexible in-and-around Toronto. 

Thank you! 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by crepetastic

[Avatar Aang]

1 hour ago, crepetastic said:

Hi there! I'm a recent graduate of a Canadian law school. I'm wondering whether there are any articling positions that would require comparatively less work to, for examples, corporate jobs, jobs at full service firms, or jobs at Bay Street firms? I.E., instead of working 60-80 hours a week, I would prefer to work 35-50 hours a week. Money isn't an issue. 

I don't want to go into specifics as to the reasons why, but I will say that this isn't a matter of laziness--it's a lifestyle choice. Would anyone here be willing to provide some suggestions? I have no immediate desire to work on Bay Street, I certainly don't need a glamorous position, and am flexible in-and-around Toronto. 

Thank you! 

 

Possibly if you can find work in smaller towns, non-litigation jobs in government, and NGOs. This is possible with employers outside of Big law, but you'll need to do your own research on each employer because many small and mid-sized firms also require a lot of hours. In general, I think private practice requires more hours than if you went to work in the public sector. In-house positions would also offer a better work-life balance. 

[crepetastic]

8 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

Possibly if you can find work in smaller towns, non-litigation jobs in government, and NGOs. This is possible with employers outside of Big law, but you'll need to do your own research on each employer because many small and mid-sized firms also require a lot of hours. In general, I think private practice requires more hours than if you went to work in the public sector. In-house positions would also offer a better work-life balance. 

Do you know individuals who articled at NGOs or in-house at companies who worked less than 50 hours a week? 

[Avatar Aang]

38 minutes ago, crepetastic said:

Do you know individuals who articled at NGOs or in-house at companies who worked less than 50 hours a week? 

Yes. But you may not be able to find these opportunities since you already graduated. These jobs are difficult to land, though a few insurance companies may be hiring articling students and junior counsel.

[canuckfanatic]

Small firms that mostly do solicitor work could offer this lifestyle. I work around 45 hours a week as an articling student doing mostly corporate solicitor work for small to medium sized businesses and residential real estate conveyancing. I rarely work evenings or weekends.

[crepetastic]

1 minute ago, canuckfanatic said:

Small firms that mostly do solicitor work could offer this lifestyle. I work around 45 hours a week as an articling student doing mostly corporate solicitor work for small to medium sized businesses and residential real estate conveyancing. I rarely work evenings or weekends.

Wow, that's awesome. Can I PM you? 

[canuckfanatic]

3 minutes ago, crepetastic said:

Wow, that's awesome. Can I PM you? 

Yup

[Civil2Common]

As someone who is finishing up articling with the government right now, I can confirm that our work hours are generally less rigorous than what seems to be the case for big law (roughly 40 hours/week). That being said, even our work load can vary in the government sector.

I cannot speak for other fields, but in my case I absolutely had to work during weekends (and in the evenings/at night) on a number of occasions. Probably not nearly as much as you would if you worked on Bay street (I assume), but it does happen. I suspect that is the case with most articling jobs though.

[ZineZ]

15 hours ago, Civil2Common said:

As someone who is finishing up articling with the government right now, I can confirm that our work hours are generally less rigorous than what seems to be the case for big law (roughly 40 hours/week). That being said, even our work load can vary in the government sector.

I cannot speak for other fields, but in my case I absolutely had to work during weekends (and in the evenings/at night) on a number of occasions. Probably not nearly as much as you would if you worked on Bay street (I assume), but it does happen. I suspect that is the case with most articling jobs though.

I'd be cautious about this bit. As you've mentioned, hours in government definitely can vary and it's worth making sure that the position applied for is less rigorous (if that is what you want). I can only speak from an Ontario perspective when it comes to articling, but a number of offices have heavier hours than you'd expect. It wasn't unheard of for my workplace to have busy periods which required for me to pull ~12 hour days regularly or work overnight on occasion.  I loved my job and the requests were based out of necessity (with support offered by counsel where it could be), but there is some caution for air here. 

The other part to note is that litigation based offices in government can work their articling students exceptionally hard. I was not in that particular situation - but OP make sure to ask questions and talk to former students if you're thinking of going down this route with work-life balance in mind. 

 

[Rashabon]

Since the shift to WFH and the COVID universe, I've seen the government lawyers I tend to work opposite (namely, securities commission lawyers) working longer hours than ever. Whether it's because of WFH and COVID, or because things like capital markets are on an insane tear over the last year and a half and the government recognizes they can't just shut them down, they've been working well past historical norms in what may have been viewed as a more "relaxed" environment previously.

[artsydork]

.You're basically looking for a unicorn job - it's not going to be easy to find and it will absolutely be competitive AF. That said, you will likely never find a job where you work only 35 hours - paid 35, sure, but worked?  Not likely.

I had a pretty great work-life balance during articles. My gig was 8:30-4:45 +- 15 mins or so, M-F, no weekend work no late evenings. This was through LAO duty counsel office. I didn't really take breaks during office hours, and generally returned early from lunch, so YMMV. These jobs are now scarce though. 

Government agencies really vary, as do small and medium firms. Toronto area is also competitive and expensive, so the expectations may be that you need to be doing more hours to make it worthwhile for them. These are hours for smaller centres and very particular firms. Even certain real-estate/solicitor firms might be doing more hours. 

[Civil2Common]

13 hours ago, ZineZ said:

I'd be cautious about this bit. As you've mentioned, hours in government definitely can vary and it's worth making sure that the position applied for is less rigorous (if that is what you want). I can only speak from an Ontario perspective when it comes to articling, but a number of offices have heavier hours than you'd expect. It wasn't unheard of for my workplace to have busy periods which required for me to pull ~12 hour days regularly or work overnight on occasion.  I loved my job and the requests were based out of necessity (with support offered by counsel where it could be), but there is some caution for air here. 

The other part to note is that litigation based offices in government can work their articling students exceptionally hard. I was not in that particular situation - but OP make sure to ask questions and talk to former students if you're thinking of going down this route with work-life balance in mind. 

 

Yes, that is a great point, Zine. My articling was with the federal government and in a non-litigation field, so I certainly cannot speak for all forms of government articling. I wouldn't say I've personally worked many 12 hour days, but it has happened. 

[Pendragon]

4 hours ago, artsydork said:

.You're basically looking for a unicorn job - it's not going to be easy to find and it will absolutely be competitive AF. That said, you will likely never find a job where you work only 35 hours - paid 35, sure, but worked?  Not likely.

I had a pretty great work-life balance during articles. My gig was 8:30-4:45 +- 15 mins or so, M-F, no weekend work no late evenings. This was through LAO duty counsel office. I didn't really take breaks during office hours, and generally returned early from lunch, so YMMV. These jobs are now scarce though. 

Government agencies really vary, as do small and medium firms. Toronto area is also competitive and expensive, so the expectations may be that you need to be doing more hours to make it worthwhile for them. These are hours for smaller centres and very particular firms. Even certain real-estate/solicitor firms might be doing more hours. 

Yea, no kidding. I hardly see postings for government and legal aid jobs and when they do show up, you need very specific experience to qualify. Unless you articled with these employers, it's difficult to get your foot in the door.

[CleanHands]

22 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Yea, no kidding. I hardly see postings for government and legal aid jobs and when they do show up, you need very specific experience to qualify. Unless you articled with these employers, it's difficult to get your foot in the door.

OP is looking for an articling position though...

[123]

5 hours ago, artsydork said:

I had a pretty great work-life balance during articles. My gig was 8:30-4:45 +- 15 mins or so, M-F, no weekend work no late evenings. This was through LAO duty counsel office. I didn't really take breaks during office hours, and generally returned early from lunch, so YMMV. These jobs are now scarce though. 

Does duty counsel have less work? They seem to work fewer hours. But some of the DCs at the busier courthouses don't seem like they have a lot less work than their private practice counterparts. They seem like they're jamming a tonne of matters into a 9-5 schedule. Which I think I would find more stressful and frustrating, unless I really needed to finish at a set-time to meet other obligations, like family, etc. 

[Apple]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:53 PM, crepetastic said:

Hi there! I'm a recent graduate of a Canadian law school. I'm wondering whether there are any articling positions that would require comparatively less work to, for examples, corporate jobs, jobs at full service firms, or jobs at Bay Street firms? I.E., instead of working 60-80 hours a week, I would prefer to work 35-50 hours a week. Money isn't an issue. 

I don't want to go into specifics as to the reasons why, but I will say that this isn't a matter of laziness--it's a lifestyle choice. Would anyone here be willing to provide some suggestions? I have no immediate desire to work on Bay Street, I certainly don't need a glamorous position, and am flexible in-and-around Toronto. 

Thank you! 

 

Come work in a Southwestern Ontario firm. My principal / the partners at the firm I am with have strictly encouraged me not to stay later in the office past 5 :30 more than 3 times a week as a general practice. In the region I am in, I know other lawyers/firms have a similar approach. It is not just word either, they actually mean it. At least the firm I am with, they actually want us to have a life outside of work. One partner at the firm I am with when we went out for lunch told how they expect work to be something I do between life - not my life.

I chose to stay away from the Toronto market because of the lifestyle choice as well and I have absolutely loved this decision. PM if you want more details. 

[artsydork]

10 hours ago, realpseudonym said:

Does duty counsel have less work? They seem to work fewer hours. But some of the DCs at the busier courthouses don't seem like they have a lot less work than their private practice counterparts. They seem like they're jamming a tonne of matters into a 9-5 schedule. Which I think I would find more stressful and frustrating, unless I really needed to finish at a set-time to meet other obligations, like family, etc. 

I did say that I didn't really take breaks during the day, but I also don't in private practice. It depends on the day and what the court is like. Monday - Thursday was crazy at my first DC office. Multiple clients spread through several courts, negotiating minutes while being called back into court, as you have someone waiting for you back in your shared office. Or having 60 people to go through on the non DV first appearance day. 

It's a different kind of busy with many time constraints and little prep. It takes a particular personality to thrive in it. I personally loved it though ultimately grew frustrated at the limitations of the role (though I'd likely still be there but for moving for personal reasons).

Those limitations, however, meant that I wasn't going home to do my docketing, emailing counsel or self reps begging them to get legal advice so that we can sign the final minutes and finally get an order. 

Each DC office is different. Some seem to do nothing and others go above and beyond making sure the courts are operating smoothly.

I used DC as an example of the 40 hours that OP was looking for. They didn't specify that they wanted a slow pace - just modest hours! My hours were certainly modest but oooh boy did I pack in those days.