Questions for current/graduated students

[LegalOrangutan]

Hello! I've recently been accepted to UOttawa law (common law program in English) and I have some questions for students who are currently studying law at the school or who have already graduated. A lot of my friends are currently in law school so I have some idea of what I'm getting myself into, but sadly none of my friends go to UOttawa. So for those of you who go to UOttawa law, have already graduated, or even just who studied law in Ontario, I have some questions for you. I would really, really appreciate any input you have.

- Do you actually like the school? How are the professors? Is there a good student community? 

- What do you think of the class sizes? This is one of the aspects I'm most worried about, as I'm concerned that it'll make extracurricular activities extra competitive. A friend of mine that goes to Allard also mentioned that at UBC, the larger classes have a lower mandated average

- How do you like the classes? Do the 1L classes tend to be really exam based or are there any ones that are more assignment based? Are there any professors/classes that you would really recommend? Any that I should really avoid?

- Have you found it doable to get work opportunities and/or move within the province and Canada? I'm open to living in Ontario for law school and some period of my twenties (I'll be 23 when I start law school), but I think down the line it's possible that I may want to come back to where I'm from (BC)

- Is being billingual absolutely imperative? I'm having a hard time gaging whether fluency in French is completely necessary, or whether it's a bonus. I was semi-fluent in French in high school, but it's been years since I've had to really use it on the regular and I'd have to pick it up again

For reference, I'm currently interested into going into Environmental and/or Indigenous law, and am currently set on working for the Department of Justice (although I'm perfectly open to other areas of law and other work placements).

Again, really appreciate any input that anyone can provide, as right now moving to Ottawa for law school feels like a bit of a shot in the dark. Thank you!!!

[Crispy Boi]

Hey, I am a current 1L at uOttawa, so I will do my best to answer your questions.

1. I am overall happy with the law school, though there are some annoyances. This is not unique to the law school, but no one seems to have anything good to say about uOttawa administration as a whole. A lot of disorganization, there were a few times in the fall where the room they assigned for tutorials wasn't big enough for the whole class... etc. The professors I've had have been excellent though, and honestly, they are a stand out part of the experience I've had so far. My experience may not be representative, as the 1L class is huge, so there are many professors I have not encountered, and cannot speak outside of my personal experience. There is one professor every 1L encounters for the mandatory Legal Foundations class who may be an exception. I don't mind her too much, but I think I am largely alone in the not-minding-her category. I don't think 1 potentially bad professor should deter you from the program though.

The student community is excellent and I have had a very positive experience with my fellow 1Ls. This may vary across social groups - in 1L at uOttawa, you are organized by your "small group" course (essentially homerooms). Certain small groups are mixed together for the larger classes. I honestly do not spend a lot of time with or often encounter people outside of the group who I share classes with. That being said, the people in my classes are so friendly and helpful, and I think the warm, supportive student community is a huge advantage over the more competitive schools. All of the upper years are also extremely helpful, and you will be introduced to multiple upper-year mentors in 1L.

2. uOttawa is the biggest law school in Canada, and it shows. They admitted 50 more students than usual for the class of 2025, and are considering doing that going forward. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is largely a bad idea. The building just isn't big enough, and there's not enough common space for all of us. So prepare for some crowded-ness. The class sizes themselves are fine - your small group is around 20 people, and the large group classes are just over 60 I believe. Extracurriculars can be competitive, but things like law review will be competitive no matter where you go. At least with a larger school, there hopefully is a correspondingly larger selection of student groups to get involved with. Everyone I know who wanted to get involved in extracurriculars was able to.

3. I have largely enjoyed all of my classes. My classes happened to be mostly exam based, but I know lots of other people who had multiple written assignments instead. It depends on the professor, not the course itself, so it's hard to make any generalizations about what you should expect. In 1st year, you only get to make 2 course selection choices: 1) your small group (which can be constitutional/public law, torts, or criminal law), which determines your large group enrollment, and 2) a single winter term elective. Because of that, there's nothing I can say about recommending courses. In the summer, when approaching course selection time, you'll be able to see course descriptions and their evaluation methods ahead of time, so you can peruse that + look up the profs on ratemyprof to guide your decisions.

4. I can't speak on this, but there are many people in my class from BC. I don't see why you would have any issues moving back to BC after law school, many people do summer jobs/articling in different provinces.

5. You do not need to speak french at all to do well in uOttawa law school, though it is a bonus, especially for your interest in working in government. Because it's Ottawa, many of the placements in government positions require or list bilingualism as an asset.

I understand it can be daunting to move so far for school. For what its worth, in just my small group of 20-ish, 25% of the class is from BC, so you will likely find many friends in the same situation.

If you have any other questions or want to talk more about attending uOttawa, feel free to ask more or PM me :)!

 

[ditiae]

Oo! What is the total class of 2025 size? 

[Crispy Boi]

I can’t find an exact number, but I believe it’s between 250-300.

[ArchivesandMuseums]

16 hours ago, ditiae said:

Oo! What is the total class of 2025 size? 

Around 340 students.

[easttowest]

That is just absurd. Fauteux was already packed to the gills. 

[reaperlaw]

8 hours ago, ArchivesandMuseums said:

Around 340 students.

If this includes French students, this is a reduction from the peak of 370-380 a couple years ago (280-290 English + 80-90 French). If this is English, I would doubt this number without an official source, the lecture halls for 1L classes were already at capacity with ~280 English students.

[ArchivesandMuseums]

10 minutes ago, reaperlaw said:

If this includes French students, this is a reduction from the peak of 370-380 a couple years ago (280-290 English + 80-90 French). If this is English, I would doubt this number without an official source, the lecture halls for 1L classes were already at capacity with ~280 English students.

I can confirm that a professor told me that this increase occurred in the English common law section. During the last admission cycle, the faculty of law sent out over-numbered acceptance decision. I personally think that this was a disaster. 

[capitalttruth]

I try to avoid FTX like the plague as much as I can. It's overcrowded and suffocating at times. 

[easttowest]

10 hours ago, reaperlaw said:

If this includes French students, this is a reduction from the peak of 370-380 a couple years ago (280-290 English + 80-90 French). If this is English, I would doubt this number without an official source, the lecture halls for 1L classes were already at capacity with ~280 English students.

I wouldn’t doubt any story about Ottawa accepting too many students. 

[CleanHands]

11 hours ago, ArchivesandMuseums said:

I can confirm that a professor told me that this increase occurred in the English common law section. During the last admission cycle, the faculty of law sent out over-numbered acceptance decision. I personally think that this was a disaster. 

Wtf this happened again? Lmao

[LegalOrangutan]

@Crispy Boi thank you so much for answering my questions! I really, really appreciate it (I mean it), I've lived/studied in BC my whole life and the idea of moving to Ottawa for law school without knowing anything about it was pretty scary. The answers you've given above definitely make it less daunting. I know you must be crazy busy, but if you get the chance, I have a couple of follow up questions...

1. Have you found that the majority of people at UOttawa want to end up working for the federal government? One thing I'm worried about is that the majority of the 300+ size class will all want to work for the DoJ or MAG, but obviously there isn't remotely enough 2L and articling positions for that to be feasible. I've also heard people talk about there being an over-saturation of lawyers and a lack of articling positions in Ontario, I'm not sure if this is actually true but it is a little daunting

2. How do you like living in Ottawa itself? Any neighbourhoods you'd recommend? I live in Greater Vancouver, and here people give practically any city that isn't Vancouver a lot of slack because they don't have ~enough mountains~

3. Do you happen to know the average age of the class? This isn't a deciding factor at all, but I'm curious if the students tend to be on the older (ie, mid to late twenties) end of the spectrum. I've also been accepted to UCalgary, and I know that I'd be on the younger end of the spectrum given that they prefer students with work experience

Edited February 2, 2023 by LegalOrangutan

[VIPigeon]

I'm a 2L at uOttawa. Regarding your last questions, I don't find that most of my classmates are interested in government work, but it may be that my friends just have similar interests to me. A LOT of people do the corporate law recruits in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Ottawa. I can say with 100% certainty that it's not a 'majority' who want to work in government. However, I know DOJ and MAG jobs are very competitive, regardless. 

Living in Ottawa for school is great. It's a beautiful city. It's not Vancouver, though. (I did the Vancouver recruit and will be moving there for articling so I have to join the "not enough mountains here" crew haha). It's honestly a very nice place to live, though. Especially if you like the outdoors. But be aware that it's more expensive than you'd think. 

I find the range of ages here pretty wide. I am 33, my best friend here is 30, many of our classmates are early twenties though. I'd say average is mid-twenties.

[Crispy Boi]

It’s no problem!! I’m happy to answer any questions. Before law school I didn’t know any lawyers or law students, and it was hard not being able to know anything. As you’ll hear many times in law school, lawyers/law students love to hear themselves talk, and I am no exception.
 

1) While I can only speak from my experience, I honestly don’t think I know anyone whose goal is to work for the federal government. However, this is probably limited by my small group choice. Most of the crim law small group students are largely grouped together for their courses and I don’t encounter them much, but I’d imagine that population of people has more interest in DOJ/MAG work.

I have also heard this, and agree that it’s daunting, but I’m also repeatedly told from upper years that all of their friends found jobs. I think as long as you’re open minded to different opportunities, things will work out. I can’t speak much about 2L or articling jobs, I honestly haven’t had the time to even think about it yet, so maybe an upper year can provide more insight.

2) Ottawa is nice. It wouldn’t be my first choice to stay here after school, just because it’s inconvenient with my partner’s and my families being in the GTA, but I wouldn’t be mad if we had to stay. There are lots of good restaurants, cafes, and nice places to walk. If you’re outdoorsy, you can always go into Quebec for some beautiful hiking spots. There are free shuttles in the summer to get you there (and your student bus pass works for Gatineau busses). I have some beef with our public transit system (so does everyone else) but it’s a nice place to live. I don’t know anyone who hates it here.
 

My friends from BC have NOT been enjoying Ottawa winter, so be aware of that lol. I’m used to snow/cold so I don’t mind too much. My understanding is most students live in Centretown or Sandy Hill, so those are the places to look for housing closer to school. If you don’t mind a longer commute, the Glebe is nice as well. You can also potentially look at housing in Gatineau, as it’s more affordable, but I don’t know much else about that option.

3) I couldn’t tell you the average age, but there is a very good spread from all walks of life. I think it’s a pretty even amount of people who are 22 and fresh out of a 4 year undergrad and people in their mid-late 20s with a few years of experience or an extra degree. There are also lots of people in their 30s-40s, though I would say they’re less represented than the other 2 groups.

Whether you go to Calgary or Ottawa, no one cares how old each other is, you’re all struggling law students. I would say at least half of my friends are 4 years younger than me, and it’s something we don’t think about. 

 

 

[scooter]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:53 PM, LegalOrangutan said:

A friend of mine that goes to Allard also mentioned that at UBC, the larger classes have a lower mandated average

The large classes are curved to between a B/B+ and the small group class is curved to a B+

On 1/28/2023 at 4:53 PM, LegalOrangutan said:

Do the 1L classes tend to be really exam based or are there any ones that are more assignment based?

The small group class is generally a mix of both assignments and exams. Some large group classes will have assignments, but most are exams. I think for first semester of 1L, most people I know had 4 December exams out of their 5 courses. Some had 3 exams and some had 5.

You get to do one elective in 1L, and most of them are assignment based.

On 1/28/2023 at 4:53 PM, LegalOrangutan said:

- Is being billingual absolutely imperative?

French isn't necessary at all if you're in the english program, I wouldn't worry about it. It's an advantage for a few opportunities and extracurriculars, for example the law review is bilingual so 50% of the people they hire have to speak French. 

2 hours ago, LegalOrangutan said:

Have you found that the majority of people at UOttawa want to end up working for the federal government? One thing I'm worried about is that the majority of the 300+ size class will all want to work for the DoJ or MAG, but obviously there isn't remotely enough 2L and articling positions for that to be feasible.

There are probably more people interested in government than at other schools, but I wouldn't say it's the majority. Also when it comes to recruiting you are competing with people from other schools anyway. So even if you didn't go to uOttawa you would be competing with uOttawa students (and other schools) when applying to work at DoJ/MAG.

3 hours ago, LegalOrangutan said:

How do you like living in Ottawa itself? Any neighbourhoods you'd recommend?

Personally I'd recommend living walking distance from campus in 1L. It just makes things so much easier. There are a few different neighbourhoods close to campus, sort of depends on your personal preferences. There are also a few areas to avoid. Feel free to DM me if you end up moving and want some more specific info. 

3 hours ago, LegalOrangutan said:

Do you happen to know the average age of the class?

If I had to guess, a rough breakdown is probably 50% age 22-24, 40% age 25-30, 10% age 30+ (I am just estimating based on my experience haha)

[reaperlaw]

On 2/2/2023 at 9:10 AM, easttowest said:

I wouldn’t doubt any story about Ottawa accepting too many students. 

My skepticism is more that these stories have been told for years and sometimes students (and professors) get the dates wrong. Given that people have been telling the "UO accidently let in too many students" story since the early-mid 2010s, and that there were some reports that the school had reduced enrollment the past few years, I'd wouldn't be surprised if this is the same story recycled for another generation of UO law students.

[ArchivesandMuseums]

16 hours ago, reaperlaw said:

My skepticism is more that these stories have been told for years and sometimes students (and professors) get the dates wrong. Given that people have been telling the "UO accidently let in too many students" story since the early-mid 2010s, and that there were some reports that the school had reduced enrollment the past few years, I'd wouldn't be surprised if this is the same story recycled for another generation of UO law students.

As a uOttawa law student, I would reject any false stories or misinformation that would undermine my school’s reputation.

I am very well aware of the information that you are referring to. See here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/u-of-o-overlooks-600-law-applicants-1.834085

The story that you are referring to occurred in 2009.

However, last year’s increased number of accepted law students in the uOtttawa’s English JD program stemmed from different reasons.

I am unable to disclose full information on the incident and reasons for that because of some confidentiality issues, but basically, the Increased enrolment in the common law section resulted from higher yield rate that the law school had not initially anticipated. In other words, during the last admission cycle, the common law section at uOttawa failed to anticipate how many applicants would accept its admission decisions.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by ArchivesandMuseums

[blueberry99]

1) The worst part of the school is the admin. It is truly atrocious. I cannot stress enough how bad the admin is and how common a complaint this is. I am personally an introvert and on the quieter end, and most of the socializing that I am aware of has been drinking or going to bars. This isn't my thing, so it's been tough to socialize to be honest. If you're extroverted or into clubbing, it would be easy.

2) classes sizes are fine I think? hey do have a larger class size than other schools, but I truly don't care or have any thoughts on this.

3) the structure of the classes are going to vary based on what small group you get in. There's really no way around this in 1L since the schedule is built around your small-group. You will get a mix of both exams and assignments no matter what you choose, and you will be fine. There is one ....infamous professor, but they teach the course for every section, so there's no way avoid to avoid them.

4) i can't fully speak to this yet, but I will say that I have been noticing that there are not as many opportunities for 1L and employment. I have friends at other schools who are already working in the school's legal clinic and other school-based employment options, and many of these don't open up until 2L for uottawa. It's possible that there are more options that I don't know about that you could get into if you did some digging, but I have been mostly focused on schoolwork this year tbh.

5) i'm not going to dance around this, but being bilingual is extremely important in Ottawa. Almost all of the summer jobs the school sent out required French, even the tour guides! If you want to work in the government in any capacity, you will need to be bilingual. With other types of law jobs, like at a firm, being bilingual is often not required but something that is prized for sure.