First-choicing

[capitalttruth]

It's probably been asked a million times before, but I'm a little confused about when to first-choice the firm I want. I have 5 final-round interviews next week. One is a third round/reception, the other 4 are second round in-firms which are over zoom. At what instance do I use the first choice language with the firm I want, knowing I may get cut after the interview, and how do I still indicate strong interest with the other firms without clearly stating first choice language? 

[utahjazz]

I'm not sure if this is good advice, but here are some things my upper-year friends said to say if you don't want to clearly state first choice:

"I am extremely interested in your firm, and I feel very confident I would be a great long-term fit here."

"You're in my top two."

"I'm still trying to decide, but you are at the top of my list."

I'm sure some of it may come down to how convincingly one can deliver a line. Hopefully, I'll have some firms interested in me, and my acting background will pay off! Haha. If anybody else has advice, I would love to hear it! 

Best of luck! 

[GGrievous]

5 minutes ago, utahjazz said:

"You're in my top two."

 

ouch

[LMP]

9 minutes ago, utahjazz said:

I'm not sure if this is good advice, but here are some things my upper-year friends said to say if you don't want to clearly state first choice:

"I am extremely interested in your firm, and I feel very confident I would be a great long-term fit here."

"You're in my top two."

"I'm still trying to decide, but you are at the top of my list."

I'm sure some of it may come down to how convincingly one can deliver a line. Hopefully, I'll have some firms interested in me, and my acting background will pay off! Haha. If anybody else has advice, I would love to hear it! 

Best of luck! 

I'd be careful with this stuff. I know a few people who tried playing it like that and ended up with no calls at all. 

You can be coy for a time but don't overplay your hand. Recognize that you aren't tricking anyone, firms know a bs answer when they hear it. 

 

[capitalttruth]

Well, then, what language should I use?

[Chewy]

2 minutes ago, capitalttruth said:

Well, then, what language should I use?

Do you have a first choice?

[capitalttruth]

1 minute ago, Chewy said:

Do you have a first choice?

Three firms are tied for my first choice, and I'm trying to figure that out. The thing is, my fourth choice firm is the only firm that has brought me back for a third round/cocktail reception, which seems like a high degree of interest/inclination to extend an offer. The other three are doing second round interviews, as they only do 2 rounds as opposed to three. The second round interviews may not go well, and thus, 3 of my first choices would fall through. I want to keep the fourth choice in my back pocket (if I can), in case this happens.

[BlockedQuebecois]

If a firm is your second choice after a three way tie for first, it’s not your second choice firm – it’s your fourth choice.

Just be honest. Say you are interested in the firm and would be excited to receive an offer from them. They’ll read between the lines and know they are not your first (and likely not your second) choice, and they’ll do with that information what they will. 

Just be honest is basically always the answer, FYI. 

[123]

This is always my favourite forum conversation. I’d like to produce a bachelor-like spinoff, but instead of vapid hot people going on dates, it’s stressed out law students first-choicing firms. I’ll need some sort of roselike symbol that they can walk over to dentons to signal their affections. 

[capitalttruth]

29 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

If a firm is your second choice after a three way tie for first, it’s not your second choice firm – it’s your fourth choice.

Just be honest. Say you are interested in the firm and would be excited to receive an offer from them. They’ll read between the lines and know they are not your first (and likely not your second) choice, and they’ll do with that information what they will. 

Just be honest is basically always the answer, FYI. 

Can I just say second choice in that case? I have two other interviews the day after the cocktail reception, so I could also say that I'm just waiting until all of my interviews are done before I make a final decision.

Edited February 17, 2023 by capitalttruth

[CleanHands]

5 minutes ago, capitalttruth said:

Can I just say second choice in that case? 

Bruh...

[123]

2 hours ago, capitalttruth said:

Can I just say second choice in that case?

Oh yes, you will do nicely for my reality TV show. 

[Psychometronic]

3 hours ago, capitalttruth said:

Can I just say second choice in that case? 

 

[capitalttruth]

I've already made an ass of myself here so I'll try to keep this last inquiry short and sweet: in your experiences, have your non first-choice firms extended offers on call day? Just want to give myself the best odds of getting something in case my top choice firm decides not to extend an offer.

I am just going to say that I am sincerely interested and would be ecstatic to receive an offer from my non first-choice firm(s), and see what happens. But just wondering how common it is to get offers from firms that you haven't first choiced?

Edited February 20, 2023 by capitalttruth

[BlockedQuebecois]

“Ecstatic” would be a weird word choice, just so you know. Particularly for a firm that isn’t your first choice. 

My firm gives offers to students who haven’t told us we are their first choice all the time. We obviously prefer students who tell us they’ll accept an offer from us, but we are not going to pass up the shot at an all star candidate just because they’ve signalled we’re their second choice.

[capitalttruth]

Fair enough. "Ecstatic" signals that I am ranking them as first choice, or I see how it could be interpreted that way, so I'll just stick to "excited".

Had an additional question: for the final round interviews, will it mostly be me asking the firm questions? I am just trying to get a sense of what the purpose of the final round interview is. I imagine I have to come with as many questions as I can to fit into the allotted time I have to ask questions?

[MiceInRice]

53 minutes ago, capitalttruth said:

I've already made an ass of myself here so I'll try to keep this last inquiry short and sweet: in your experiences, have your non first-choice firms extended offers on call day? Just want to give myself the best odds of getting something in case my top choice firm decides not to extend an offer.

I am just going to say that I am sincerely interested and would be ecstatic to receive an offer from my non first-choice firm(s), and see what happens. But just wondering how common it is to get offers from firms that you haven't first choiced?

I didn't use first choice language with any firms and got an offer at 8am on offer day. Try not to stress too much - just be genuinely interested in the firm(s) and they should be able to tell.

[Psychometronic]

The absence of first choice language doesn't mean you won't get an offer and the presence of it doesn't mean you've secured an offer. Some places don't even care for this language (i.e. government positions). I've had friends who were heavily pressured to use first choice language and didn't get offers. It really is a gamble for students so my suggestion is to "first choice" a firm that really is your first choice and see what happens. There really isn't a way to game this. 

[Pantalaimon]

4 hours ago, capitalttruth said:

I've already made an ass of myself here so I'll try to keep this last inquiry short and sweet: in your experiences, have your non first-choice firms extended offers on call day? Just want to give myself the best odds of getting something in case my top choice firm decides not to extend an offer.

I am just going to say that I am sincerely interested and would be ecstatic to receive an offer from my non first-choice firm(s), and see what happens. But just wondering how common it is to get offers from firms that you haven't first choiced?

I received offers from firms that I didn't indicate any interest to at all (other than attending all of their events, of course), let alone anything about being excited to receive an offer from them. If you're this deep with this many firms, I'd think of first choice as an asset to help you land where you actually want to land, not a risk mitigation item.

PS: the issue with ecstatic isn't that it would be interpreted as some sort of code for first choice. Firms know when you're not first choicing them. The issue with "ecstatic" is it's just an odd word to use in this context.

[sanment]

What to do when you feel pressured to first-choice a firm? I am super interested in this firm. However, there is one other firm that I really like, so I am unsure which one to first-choice. But from the conversation I had with the firm, it seemed that if I don’t first-choice them, they will not give me an offer..But I would be very happy to receive and accept an offer from them, I am just not 100% sure if I like one more than the other. I am afraid of ruining my chance with one if I first-choice the other, but I’m also afraid of not getting a call from either if I don’t first-choice the one I spoke with. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

1 hour ago, sanment said:

What to do when you feel pressured to first-choice a firm? I am super interested in this firm. However, there is one other firm that I really like, so I am unsure which one to first-choice. But from the conversation I had with the firm, it seemed that if I don’t first-choice them, they will not give me an offer..But I would be very happy to receive and accept an offer from them, I am just not 100% sure if I like one more than the other. I am afraid of ruining my chance with one if I first-choice the other, but I’m also afraid of not getting a call from either if I don’t first-choice the one I spoke with. 

That’s really just part of the process. Some firms, particularly less competitive ones, won’t give offers to students that don’t tell them they will accept an offer. You have to weigh the pros and cons of both firms and make a decision. 

With that said, you really ought to tell someone that they are your first choice. There’s absolutely no benefit in playing coy with two firms. 

[sunshinecoast]

1 hour ago, sanment said:

What to do when you feel pressured to first-choice a firm? I am super interested in this firm. However, there is one other firm that I really like, so I am unsure which one to first-choice. But from the conversation I had with the firm, it seemed that if I don’t first-choice them, they will not give me an offer..But I would be very happy to receive and accept an offer from them, I am just not 100% sure if I like one more than the other. I am afraid of ruining my chance with one if I first-choice the other, but I’m also afraid of not getting a call from either if I don’t first-choice the one I spoke with. 

I personally would go with the safe choice, especially if they offer a similar working environment and what you hope to get out of a workplace. Also, this is just an anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt, but my friends who had amazing grades (undergrad and law school), stellar extracurriculars and knew how to interview well all got offers from their first choices and firms they did not first choice. Whereas my friends whose grades and applications materials were closer to average only got offers from the firm they first choiced. It is a good idea to assess how strong of an applicant you think you are and truly what your chances for an offer are. I know this is harder to do with more subjective areas like your interviewing skills, but it is important to consider.

[sanment]

6 hours ago, sunshinecoast said:

I personally would go with the safe choice, especially if they offer a similar working environment and what you hope to get out of a workplace. Also, this is just an anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt, but my friends who had amazing grades (undergrad and law school), stellar extracurriculars and knew how to interview well all got offers from their first choices and firms they did not first choice. Whereas my friends whose grades and applications materials were closer to average only got offers from the firm they first choiced. It is a good idea to assess how strong of an applicant you think you are and truly what your chances for an offer are. I know this is harder to do with more subjective areas like your interviewing skills, but it is important to consider.

So grades generally are still relevant this far in the process?

[alibp]

8 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

That’s really just part of the process. Some firms, particularly less competitive ones, won’t give offers to students that don’t tell them they will accept an offer. You have to weigh the pros and cons of both firms and make a decision. 

With that said, you really ought to tell someone that they are your first choice. There’s absolutely no benefit in playing coy with two firms. 

Do the big/more competitive firms care about first choicing? 

[BlockedQuebecois]

14 minutes ago, alibp said:

Do the big/more competitive firms care about first choicing? 

Yes, but in my experience they’re less likely to completely blacklist a candidate solely because they didn’t say the magic words.