Variance in Difficulty Per School (?)

[user91970]

I had the fortunate opportunity to attend the welcome days for both Osgoode and UofT. From what I have gathered, UofT seems to emphasize how rigorous and challenging their program is. I imagine that Osgoode's program isn't any less rigorous or challenging. I suppose I am wondering:

• what does it mean when a law school's difficulty/rigorousness is discussed (e.g. is it the kinds of questions posed on exams or professors' expectations)?
•  Does curriculum/testing actually differ between law schools in ways that matter? 

I am not trying to suggest that I am making my decision based on the "difficulty" of a law school program. Law school is hard, period. I really am just curious on what an "especially rigorous/demanding" program actually means in context. Looking back these probably would have been good questions to ask during the welcome days lol.

Thanks so much for any info🙂

 

[LMP]

Difficulty of the program is irrelevant in my view. Both because there isn't a significance variance and because all your courses are curved. 

The course can be easy or hard, doesn't matter, because your grade will be determined by how much better or worse you do than everyone else in the class 

[user91970]

Yeah, that makes total sense. Thanks for your input 🙂 

[Renerik]

Chatting with my friends at other schools, there's a consensus that what makes law school "hard" isn't the courses, but the giant time sink created by all the extra stuff you're expected to do on top of school - clinics, recruit, volunteering, networking, talks, socials. 

Doesn't matter which school, you can fill your plate anywhere you go.

[BlockedQuebecois]

15 minutes ago, Renerik said:

Chatting with my friends at other schools, there's a consensus that what makes law school "hard" isn't the courses, but the giant time sink created by all the extra stuff you're expected to do on top of school - clinics, recruit, volunteering, networking, talks, socials. 

Doesn't matter which school, you can fill your plate anywhere you go.

Disagree. What makes law school hard is that most law students are not nearly as clever as they think they are, and law school professors have the uniquely unpleasant responsibility of breaking that to them. 

[StephenToast]

3 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Disagree. What makes law school hard is that most law students are not nearly as clever as they think they are, and law school professors have the uniquely unpleasant responsibility of breaking that to them. 

Porque no los dos? I'm proud to say I'm both an idiot and took too much responsibilities on!

[OhPlease]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:50 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

Disagree. What makes law school hard is that most law students are not nearly as clever as they think they are, and law school professors have the uniquely unpleasant responsibility of breaking that to them. 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by ACS
regret!

[BlockedQuebecois]

Did you really read that post and conclude that I think law school is hard? 

I’ve gotta stop being so subtle. 

[CrimeAndPunishment]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:34 PM, Renerik said:

Chatting with my friends at other schools, there's a consensus that what makes law school "hard" isn't the courses, but the giant time sink created by all the extra stuff you're expected to do on top of school - clinics, recruit, volunteering, networking, talks, socials. 

Doesn't matter which school, you can fill your plate anywhere you go.

I was watching a podcast the other day by two people that were top 10 at their law schools in the U.S. and they were saying that generally speaking it’s better to do no extracurriculars and to instead focus the time you would have been spending on them working to get a higher gpa.
 

They said to think about your law gpa like you would your lsat score and undergrad gpa, that it’s best to maximize it because while some extracurricular activities are cool to do they are not that valued by employers as a higher gpa is. Their main exception was law review and journal if you want to do clerkships. What’s your opinion on this advice?

[Turtles]

2 hours ago, CrimeAndPunishment said:

I was watching a podcast the other day by two people that were top 10 at their law schools in the U.S. and they were saying that generally speaking it’s better to do no extracurriculars and to instead focus the time you would have been spending on them working to get a higher gpa.
 

They said to think about your law gpa like you would your lsat score and undergrad gpa, that it’s best to maximize it because while some extracurricular activities are cool to do they are not that valued by employers as a higher gpa is. Their main exception was law review and journal if you want to do clerkships. What’s your opinion on this advice?

How many hours per week do you honestly think you'll be spending on school that you won't have enough spare time to commit to extracurriculars? Do you think you also need to cut back on showering or seeing friends or going outside to the maximize time you have to study?

Extracurriculars are an opportunity to socialize with others with similar interests and dabble in different things. Some can add to your workload but you either have to be really inefficient or really over-extended for it to have a material adverse impact on your grades. Almost none would call for more than 5 hours/week, with most less than 1 hour per week average.

You should realize you don't need to commit 100% of your time to studying to do well. Hell, you can commit fewer hours than a regular full-time job and still make dean's list. You have a higher probability of burning yourself out if you put in too many hours and fail to find balance, rather than reap a material benefit from mindlessly studying. 

[Mal]

5 hours ago, CrimeAndPunishment said:

I was watching a podcast the other day by two people that were top 10 at their law schools in the U.S. and they were saying that generally speaking it’s better to do no extracurriculars and to instead focus the time you would have been spending on them working to get a higher gpa.
 

They said to think about your law gpa like you would your lsat score and undergrad gpa, that it’s best to maximize it because while some extracurricular activities are cool to do they are not that valued by employers as a higher gpa is. Their main exception was law review and journal if you want to do clerkships. What’s your opinion on this advice?

USA and Canada are not the same places. 

Law school isn't hard per se, there's a decent amount of volume but generally the law is meant to be straightforward. It is simply difficult to do extremely well because it is competitive. 

[ruthlessfox]

On the other hand, it’s a common problem for 1Ls at my school to take on more extracurriculars than they should during “clubs week”, which can add stress at certain times of the year. Time spent studying in 1L won’t necessarily be efficient as you learn how to prepare for a law school exam. I think there is definitely a balance to strive for.

[scooter]

5 hours ago, CrimeAndPunishment said:

I was watching a podcast the other day by two people that were top 10 at their law schools in the U.S. and they were saying that generally speaking it’s better to do no extracurriculars and to instead focus the time you would have been spending on them working to get a higher gpa.
 

They said to think about your law gpa like you would your lsat score and undergrad gpa, that it’s best to maximize it because while some extracurricular activities are cool to do they are not that valued by employers as a higher gpa is. Their main exception was law review and journal if you want to do clerkships. What’s your opinion on this advice?

First, American law students operate in a very different recruiting environment. This advice was given in that context, and also for people with pretty specific goals. I would keep that in mind whenever you're listening to American podcasts or watching American YouTubers. 

There's no one best way to do anything. Even for specific career paths there are 700 different ways to get there.

There aren't any rules that you should follow. It would be best to focus on figuring out what you actually want to get out of law school, and then doing those things. This requires ignoring 95% of the advice and opinions you hear from other people.

It would be unwise to avoid extracurriculars just because someone told you to focus on grades. It would also be unwise to do extracurriculars just because someone told you they're good for getting a job. Things tend to work out when you just do what you're actually interested in doing.

[Kimura]

6 hours ago, CrimeAndPunishment said:

I was watching a podcast the other day by two people that were top 10 at their law schools in the U.S. and they were saying that generally speaking it’s better to do no extracurriculars and to instead focus the time you would have been spending on them working to get a higher gpa.
 

They said to think about your law gpa like you would your lsat score and undergrad gpa, that it’s best to maximize it because while some extracurricular activities are cool to do they are not that valued by employers as a higher gpa is. Their main exception was law review and journal if you want to do clerkships. What’s your opinion on this advice?

GPA is valued highly and I would suggest you focus on this as much as you can in your first year. However, if you're going to do any extracurriculars, I would recommend participating in a clinic or any environment in which you can get your hands on a file and deal with actual clients (I. E. Osgoode's CLASP / U of T's DLS, etc.) 

There are only so many As that can be handed out in a given class. Demonstrating that you can handle a file from start to finish and interact with clients on a regular basis is attractive to any employer. 

[QueensDenning]

In my experience, people who can get A's consistently aren't necessarily the ones who study the most, and they're able to do so while participating in extracurriculars. 

[CrimeAndPunishment]

10 hours ago, Turtles said:

How many hours per week do you honestly think you'll be spending on school that you won't have enough spare time to commit to extracurriculars? Do you think you also need to cut back on showering or seeing friends or going outside to the maximize time you have to study?

Extracurriculars are an opportunity to socialize with others with similar interests and dabble in different things. Some can add to your workload but you either have to be really inefficient or really over-extended for it to have a material adverse impact on your grades. Almost none would call for more than 5 hours/week, with most less than 1 hour per week average.

You should realize you don't need to commit 100% of your time to studying to do well. Hell, you can commit fewer hours than a regular full-time job and still make dean's list. You have a higher probability of burning yourself out if you put in too many hours and fail to find balance, rather than reap a material benefit from mindlessly studying. 

I have no clue how much time people study in law school. I’ve heard of people barely doing any readings, cramming a week or two before finals and getting average grades. I’ve heard some people say it was 60 hours a week for them. It’s a new environment for me and I was interested if people on this forum agreed with them. I also didn’t know how much of a time commitment some of these extracurricular are, if I knew they were less than 5 hours for the most part I wouldn’t have asked the question in the first place.

When it comes to studying, I hear the U.S. students talk about Quimbee. Would you recommend a similar service in Canada? My hope would be to read the case law and then watch videos on any topics I have more difficulty with.

Edited April 16, 2023 by CrimeAndPunishment

[Rashabon]

Do not listen to anything recommended by American students relating to American law school. The experiences are not the same and if it ends up being useful, it will only be by accident.

[SNAILS]

It is easy in law school to get a B, but harder to get an A.

I saw some Engineering students a while ago who complained half their class failed one of their courses. Law school is not like that. Law school is curved, and you will not fail a course unless (a) you do no work, or (b) you are exceptionally bad at law school, or (c) you suffer some kind of life emergency.

Myself, I spend 40 hours a week studying, and I attend every class. In light of that workload, I didn't really do any extra curriculars. Most people study less than I do. Some people are just "smarter" than others, for lack of a better term, and A's will come easier to them (by the way, I still only have a B+ average even though I work harder than most). Lots of people pull a B average skipping classes and cramming before the exam.

Some people on these forums will tell you they got all A's while skipping class and barely working. Some of them are even telling the truth. 🙂