osgoode fin aid

[ramoj]

I got an email reply after asking Osgoode about entrance scholarships that some people decline their scholarships and may be given out to "the next deserving" applicant.

How true is this? Is this just smoke and mirrors? Who says no to free money?

Also, does anyone know how easy it is to get Osgoode bursaries if you dont get an entrance scholarship? 

[Obi-wan]

I can't speak to why others may decline their entrance scholarships, but I can speak to the bursary process. It is based on financial aid. Applications come out in September-ish of every year and if your get a bursary it is added to your account by December-ish. The application asks you a number of questions in order to determine your resource-expense shortfall. The less resources you have access to and the higher your expenses, the more $$ you will get. Your application must be submitted with evidence - like bank statements and the like. If you received an entrance scholarship, that must be noted on your application as a 'resource'. 

I believe that the value of the bursary depends on how many students apply and what your resource-expense shortfall is compared to theirs. But I am open to be wrong on this point.. I have heard that most people who apply for a bursary and have expenses that exceed their resources receive a bursary of some kind.

[rocket]

 

1 hour ago, jomar said:

How true is this? Is this just smoke and mirrors? Who says no to free money?

Sometimes people who were offered entrance scholarships decline the offer of admission, so they don’t get the free money. You might see more movement around the acceptance deadline. 

[JimmyMcGill]

Osgoode has the best financial aid, hands down. The cost is ridiculous, but anyone in significant need is not paying the full sticker price. I was shocked when I half-heartedly looked around at other schools before deciding to apply only to Osgoode and U of T. Nowhere else had anything close bursary wise. Lots of money floats around at bursary time.

[RoseLAW]

 

26 minutes ago, JimmyMcGill said:

Osgoode has the best financial aid, hands down. The cost is ridiculous, but anyone in significant need is not paying the full sticker price. I was shocked when I half-heartedly looked around at other schools before deciding to apply only to Osgoode and U of T. Nowhere else had anything close bursary wise. Lots of money floats around at bursary time.

Do you know if Osgoode bursaries/entrance scholarships would be affected by Osgoode's Income-Contingent Loan Program (ICLP) if I filled out that part on my financial statement form?

Edited March 26, 2023 by RoseLAW

[ramoj]

12 hours ago, JimmyMcGill said:

Osgoode has the best financial aid, hands down. The cost is ridiculous, but anyone in significant need is not paying the full sticker price. I was shocked when I half-heartedly looked around at other schools before deciding to apply only to Osgoode and U of T. Nowhere else had anything close bursary wise. Lots of money floats around at bursary time.

Can you expand on this point re: looking at other schools versus Osgoode/UT. Thanks! 

[JimmyMcGill]

No @RoseLAW - they kind of get wrapped up together. ICLP recipients get the max bursary.

 

@jomar Tuition basically everywhere else is way lower than Osgoode/UofT/University Metropolitan Toronto formerly X University. But the bursaries and financial aid overall didn't seem to be anywhere close.

So for me, as a low-income, high needs student, it was way more realistic to stay in Toronto, despite upper middle class friends urging me to keep expenses low and take a cheaper program with a lower cost of living elsewhere, because with the cost of housing and the high tuition offset by my low income/high needs status, the overall cost of attendance was way lower in Toronto.

Your mileage may vary, but if you're willing to live on campus, Passy is very cheap compared to the rest of Toronto, and you will get better financial aid at Osgoode than anywhere else. At the maximum bursary levels, you're paying less than $10,000 at Osgoode, and lots of people get that. Western, Queens and Ottawa seemed to have some bursaries, but nothing like that.

[ramoj]

12 hours ago, JimmyMcGill said:

No @RoseLAW - they kind of get wrapped up together. ICLP recipients get the max bursary.

 

@jomar Tuition basically everywhere else is way lower than Osgoode/UofT/University Metropolitan Toronto formerly X University. But the bursaries and financial aid overall didn't seem to be anywhere close.

So for me, as a low-income, high needs student, it was way more realistic to stay in Toronto, despite upper middle class friends urging me to keep expenses low and take a cheaper program with a lower cost of living elsewhere, because with the cost of housing and the high tuition offset by my low income/high needs status, the overall cost of attendance was way lower in Toronto.

Your mileage may vary, but if you're willing to live on campus, Passy is very cheap compared to the rest of Toronto, and you will get better financial aid at Osgoode than anywhere else. At the maximum bursary levels, you're paying less than $10,000 at Osgoode, and lots of people get that. Western, Queens and Ottawa seemed to have some bursaries, but nothing like that.

Thanks for this information - good to know. We are in similar situations. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

16 hours ago, JimmyMcGill said:

At the maximum bursary levels, you're paying less than $10,000 at Osgoode, and lots of people get that.

Only 4% of Osgoode students get the maximum bursary level, so I wouldn’t say that “lots” of people get the maximum bursary. If you aren’t in the ICLP, the chances of you getting the max bursary are negligible. 
 

The vast majority (75%) of Osgoode students get 5k or less in bursaries. 

[ramoj]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Only 4% of Osgoode students get the maximum bursary level, so I wouldn’t say that “lots” of people get the maximum bursary. If you aren’t in the ICLP, the chances of you getting the max bursary are negligible. 
 

The vast majority (75%) of Osgoode students get 5k or less in bursaries. 

Thanks for this, where do these statistics come from?

[CleanHands]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Only 4% of Osgoode students get the maximum bursary level, so I wouldn’t say that “lots” of people get the maximum bursary. If you aren’t in the ICLP, the chances of you getting the max bursary are negligible. 

The vast majority (75%) of Osgoode students get 5k or less in bursaries. 

Thank you for actual statistics on this.

Speaking not just of Osgoode but more broadly, I find that this forum for whatever reason attracts a disproportionate ratio of students who receive generous bursaries, and who then tend to write about these experiences as if they are nearly universally representative of what typical students can expect. My own experience and that of virtually all of my peers I know offline, who attended various different law schools, does not at all track with what I've repeatedly read here.

Just want to emphasize that applicants shouldn't rely on those anecdotes.

[BlockedQuebecois]

17 minutes ago, jomar said:

Thanks for this, where do these statistics come from?

@Turtles posted it in discord.

I agree with @CleanHands regarding bursaries. With the exception of U of T, whose calculator is apparently fairly accurate, you should assume that you’ll be paying at least 80% of sticker price in first year at most schools. A safer assumption is obviously that you will be paying 100% of sticker price. 

[Diplock]

8 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Thank you for actual statistics on this.

Speaking not just of Osgoode but more broadly, I find that this forum for whatever reason attracts a disproportionate ratio of students who receive generous bursaries, and who then tend to write about these experiences as if they are nearly universally representative of what typical students can expect. My own experience and that of virtually all of my peers I know offline, who attended various different law schools, does not at all track with what I've repeatedly read here.

Just want to emphasize that applicants shouldn't rely on those anecdotes.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn your observations are true - that this forum attracts a sampling of students that are not perfectly representative of the whole, along the lines you observe. I'm not sure if you meant that to imply that the students who come here are somehow more fortunate, more connected, more privileged, etc. But while I agree with your factual observation, my explanation for the cause is very simple, and my take away is the distinct opposite of privilege.

The simple truth is that applicants and students come here looking for information about law school and the legal profession because they don't have anywhere else to get it. That is to say, they do not come from families where either of their parents are in the profession, where they are networked with lawyers in their immediate circles, etc. People who know lawyers personally don't tend to come here asking basic questions about how the profession works because they have access to that information already. In other words, this forum attracts a population of students who are among the least privileged in law school. And, as a not-surprising extension of this, they rely disproportionately on loans, lines of credit, bursaries, etc.

Speaking as someone who went to U of T - and Osgoode isn't far better than U of T, in my experience - the population of students in law school are shockingly privileged overall. I went to school with children of judges, senators, etc. Even those who don't come from families with lawyers directly in their home or close family are easily networked with lawyers, etc. Six figure family incomes are the norm and anyone who has less than that is poor by definition. This forum attracts students who don't have all of that going for them, by and large. And that's great.

Anyway, not disagreeing with your observation, at all. But it's a small extension of something I've considered obvious about the community here for quite some time.

 

[Turtles]

A couple things I'll add:

• The bursary levels referenced above are for fall funding. This is typically the vast majority, if not all, of bursary funding students get. But there is also winter funding available that can range from $500-10,000. It's intended mostly for graduating students with lots of debt but 1Ls and 2Ls can and do get a piece if they're assessed at one of the higher levels during the fall funding process (this is automatic, you don't need to apply separately for winter funding). 
• The bursary application notes that the following are the "expected levels of debt" based on your year of study. If you're below these levels, you probably shouldn't expect to be getting one of the higher levels of funding; but if you're below them, that doesn't mean you're necessarily getting nothing. 
  • Year 1 - $20k
  • Year 2 - $50k
  • Year 3 - $75k
• Outside of the bursaries, there are scholarships available based on performance, some of which require having some financial need. If you're in the top 20% of grades in your year and received any bursary, for example, you can get a couple thousand over and above these bursaries.
• With respect to law students coming from privilege, just a reminder while 9.3% of entering UofT students had family pre-tax incomes <=50k, 9.3% had family income above $500k (3.7% of which had family incomes in excess of $1M). (I don't have data for Osgoode)

Edited March 29, 2023 by Turtles

[ramoj]

@Turtles @BlockedQuebecois @Obi-wan 

 

Just following up on this, I got an email confirming Osgoode is giving me about 60% tuition paid for via an entrance scholarship. Does this mean I will still be eligible for bursaries in the Fall if I meet the financial aid criteria?

[Obi-wan]

I am fairly certain that your entrance scholarship will factor into the calculation of your available resources which count against your expenses. If you do not have a resource-expense shortfall (i.e., more resources available than expenses incurred), then it will be unlikely that you will receive a bursary. That said, even if you do not have a shortfall, you can still apply for a bursary and see if you receive funds because they are distributed based on need (as measured by the R/E shortfall).

 

[realmadrid07_]

10 hours ago, jomar said:

@Turtles @BlockedQuebecois @Obi-wan 

 

Just following up on this, I got an email confirming Osgoode is giving me about 60% tuition paid for via an entrance scholarship. Does this mean I will still be eligible for bursaries in the Fall if I meet the financial aid criteria?

Hello! Firstly, congrats on the entrance scholarship -- 60% tuition is incredible! Would you mind sharing your stats? I only recently got notice of an entrance scholarship but it was nowhere near 60% tuition and whether or not it is renewable was not mentioned. Could you provide any additional information on what exactly they gave you?

[starlight44]

I would not rely on an Ultra Vires anonymous survey with a sample size of 65. The demographic statistics are very far off from what is published by the university.

[Dnian]

On 4/25/2023 at 5:04 AM, jomar said:

@Turtles @BlockedQuebecois @Obi-wan 

 

Just following up on this, I got an email confirming Osgoode is giving me about 60% tuition paid for via an entrance scholarship. Does this mean I will still be eligible for bursaries in the Fall if I meet the financial aid criteria?

Delayed reply, but I received a roughly 50% scholarship. It did affect my bursary eligibility in the fall quite significantly. It also affected my student aid totals I would have otherwise gotten from the provincial government.

However, you can still apply - it's just as if you had that extra scholarship money as cash liquidity, so if the scholarship money covers most of your shortfall, then you won't get as much.