TRU vs. Osgoode - Any Feedback Welcomed

[Canlawforumuser123]

 

Hi everyone! Glad to hear any feedback from y’all on whether TRU or Osgoode is better along with their internship/summer/work opportunities afterwards? Any advantages or disadvantages that sets both apart from other schools in Canada?

 

I’m an Ontario applicant deciding between both. I am not rigid on which field I’m interested in or in which market, but I am really inclined towards corporate big law for firms like BLG, BCG, McCarthy, Stikeman, etc. which are in both Downtown Calgary or Toronto (whichever would be more manageable to land a role) or maybe criminal law in provincial/federal prosecution. Some feedback here on corporate big law vs provincial/federal prosecution will be great as well (Which is better?)

 

For Osgoode, I’ll be completing my undergrad here (YorkU) and I’m 20 min away from home so I’m familiar with the location and connection to downtown Toronto. I’ve also been working as a Realtor for around 2 years so with knowing different locations and facilities across GTA I have some clientele here too. Besides Toronto, I’m not sure but I believe that an Osgoode JD can still help me for settling in any big law firm in Calgary if so (not sure if it’s easier/harder than Toronto. Not sure?). This can probably be by doing my summer role + articling in Calgary while studying in Osgoode and start my associate work there when done, or doing all of this with some associate work in Toronto and then leave for Calgary in the end (if this may take me a few years I would be okay with that).

 

For TRU, I see the location proximity to the  Calgary market as appealing to me. Before my undergrad I’ve lived my whole time in Calgary so I have families and friends there, and I believe returning to Calgary is a possibility for me from here. Besides that, the campus environment looks better and there’s more with recreation you can do like hiking and golf which are some of my hobbies I like to continue while in law school.

 

Also some general factors like less traffic, more housing options, higher living standards also makes me tilt a bit towards Calgary. But I really want to make sure my recruitment prospects and income/benefits are good here first. If Toronto is better in this aspect, I can plan to stay here for my JD, get recruited here and may plan to move to Calgary later on after some years of associate work. 
 

Glad to hear from y’all! Thanks!

[FranksRedHot]

The proximity of TRU to Calgary does not outweigh all of the other benefits of Osgoode, plus you already live in the area. 

TRU is a fine school, people should not bash it as much as they do, but Osgoode is the logical choice here. The only positive for you is TRU being close to Calgary, you can offset that with some legwork in finding articles and summer positions. You know Calgary well, and can use your connection to the area to show firms that you are motivated to summer, article, and practice there. 

Also, while there's nothing wrong with TRU, Kamloops itself sucks compared to Toronto, it would be a tough change. 

Osgoode all the way, congrats on being accepted!

[Canlawforumuser123]

1 hour ago, FranksRedHot said:

The proximity of TRU to Calgary does not outweigh all of the other benefits of Osgoode, plus you already live in the area. 

TRU is a fine school, people should not bash it as much as they do, but Osgoode is the logical choice here. The only positive for you is TRU being close to Calgary, you can offset that with some legwork in finding articles and summer positions. You know Calgary well, and can use your connection to the area to show firms that you are motivated to summer, article, and practice there. 

Also, while there's nothing wrong with TRU, Kamloops itself sucks compared to Toronto, it would be a tough change. 

Osgoode all the way, congrats on being accepted!

Thanks for your update and best wishes! Very appreciated!

 

I am curious to know the 'legwork' you're suggesting in finding summer and articling positions. I am not sure what it entails so will be great you can describe. Also while completing my Osgoode JD can I start applying for summer positions in Calgary from my 1, then articling and an associate role later on? Or is it better to target Bay Street for summer + articling + few years as associate and can move afterwards?   

 

Also the comparison between Kamloops and Toronto is something you've raised. Are there disadvantages staying in Kamloops compared to Toronto? I thought in Kamloops there would be better living standards (less traffic, more recreation stuff like hiking and golf and near mountains for travelling, better weather in the winter, etc.)

[FranksRedHot]

With regard to the legwork I mentioned, TRU would have easier access to the Calgary firms, and they place quite a few grads there, so the alumni network is decent. You'll want to really leverage the Ozgoode alumni network to get as much insight as you can for each firm for when you apply for summer jobs. There are others on this forum who can give much better advice than I can with your question of where to article and take an associate role, but if you want bay street, Osgoode is really your best option, on top of everything else. 

I don't really like Kamloops, the city has a bad layout, techincally there is less traffic, but unless you're right by the school, your commute can easily be 30 minutes or more. Yes there are more recreation activities, but I wouldn't say they make it an obvious choice over Toronto, especially given the limited time of a law student. Also Kamloops winters are different than Toronto winters, but they will suck. 

Osgoode is right downtown with everything around it, TRU is off on its own, there's a Save On Foods thats close, and a few other things, otherwise its somewhat disconnected from the city. 

Hope this helps!

[Canlawforumuser123]

Thanks once again!

 

If I intend to practise in Calgary, while doing my Osgoode JD should I do my summer role + articling + some years of associate work in Toronto before moving there or I can do all of this in Calgary?

Also how are my chances of recruitment in these firms (BLG, BCG, Stikeman, McCarthy, etc.) in Calgary vs Toronto? Are there differences in the income/benefits packages you get in both places?

[HarryCrane]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:36 PM, FranksRedHot said:

 

I don't really like Kamloops, the city has a bad layout, techincally there is less traffic, but unless you're right by the school, your commute can easily be 30 minutes or more. Yes there are more recreation activities, but I wouldn't say they make it an obvious choice over Toronto, especially given the limited time of a law student. Also Kamloops winters are different than Toronto winters, but they will suck. 

Osgoode is right downtown with everything around it, TRU is off on its own, there's a Save On Foods thats close, and a few other things, otherwise its somewhat disconnected from the city. 

Hope this helps!

TRU might be "off it its own" geographically, but its extremely easy to get to most places. Campus is at most a 5 min drive from downtown, there's a superstore across the street, as well as several restaurants within walking distance (and even looking at a map, its pretty centrally located in the city). The surrounding area of TRU is very student friendly in terms of amenities. Unless you are at the far end of North Shore, the average commute to campus is probably 10 minutes. 

 

As far as Osgoode or TRU, if you want to practice in Toronto, Osgoode is the better pick. If the target is Calgary, TRU has the advantage of being closer and having some networking events and alumni networks to leverage (I will also just say that the TRU alumni network is small, but it hits hard), but that comes at the cost of having to move and living expenses associated with that. To be sure, Osgoode would not disadvantage you from getting a job in Calgary.

 

I will also mention that the community that TRU fosters is really something that is unique compared to other schools (at least from conversations I have had with UBC, UofA and Osgoode students, others may have a different experience). Pretty much everyone at TRU isn't from Kamloops, so everyone is sort of in the same position and looking to make friends and create a support network. From what I've been told, this lends itself to a different law school experience than you'd get otherwise.

[FranksRedHot]

@Canlawforumuser123 My info was wrong, haven't been to TRU in a few years. Thanks @HarryCrane for correcting me, (although my opinion of Kamloops is harder to correct lol), and giving answers to questions I'm not fully able to answer. 

I'll say it again and echo Harry that I've hard very good things about the student community at TRU. 

That said I still think Osgoode is the better choice given your situation, but I don't think there is an inherently wrong choice here. 

[Canlawforumuser123]

Great thanks for the further input! So helpful to be learning time to time when deciding!

 

for income/benefits are they pretty much the same for a firm (BLG, BCG, Stikeman etc.) located in Calgary vs Toronto? 

[HarryCrane]

7 hours ago, Canlawforumuser123 said:

Great thanks for the further input! So helpful to be learning time to time when deciding!

 

for income/benefits are they pretty much the same for a firm (BLG, BCG, Stikeman etc.) located in Calgary vs Toronto? 

Articling pay is publicly available for both markets (from memory its 85k in Calgary vs 120k in Toronto edit: Toronto pay is 98k as indicated below), so really the big difference is going to cost of living. Also worth mentioning that while these firms have offices in Calgary and Toronto, the individual offices will be slightly different in terms of environment, practice area emphasis etc.

Edited March 22, 2023 by HarryCrane
Corrected wrong information.

[Pecan Boy]

5 minutes ago, HarryCrane said:

Articling pay is publicly available for both markets (from memory its 85k in Calgary vs 120k in Toronto)

Articling pay in Toronto is $1900/week, which is $98,800 annualized. Not 120,000

[HarryCrane]

2 minutes ago, Pecan Boy said:

Articling pay in Toronto is $1900/week, which is $98,800 annualized. Not 120,000

My mistake, was going off memory and should have looked it up. 

[Turtles]

54 minutes ago, HarryCrane said:

Articling pay is publicly available for both markets (from memory its 85k in Calgary vs 120k in Toronto edit: Toronto pay is 98k as indicated below), so really the big difference is going to cost of living. Also worth mentioning that while these firms have offices in Calgary and Toronto, the individual offices will be slightly different in terms of environment, practice area emphasis etc.

Don't forget the favorable tax rates in Alberta juxtaposed against the existential dread of living there.

[Canlawforumuser123]

1 hour ago, HarryCrane said:

Articling pay is publicly available for both markets (from memory its 85k in Calgary vs 120k in Toronto edit: Toronto pay is 98k as indicated below), so really the big difference is going to cost of living. Also worth mentioning that while these firms have offices in Calgary and Toronto, the individual offices will be slightly different in terms of environment, practice area emphasis etc.

Thanks for the update again! Do you have a website link I can visit to check income/benefits related information for a big law firm?

[Gamgee]

14 minutes ago, Canlawforumuser123 said:

Thanks for the update again! Do you have a website link I can visit to check income/benefits related information for a big law firm?

https://www.nalpcanada.com

[Rashabon]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:36 PM, FranksRedHot said:

Osgoode is right downtown with everything around it, TRU is off on its own, there's a Save On Foods thats close, and a few other things, otherwise its somewhat disconnected from the city. 

Osgoode Hall, the Court of Appeal building, and Osgoode Station, the subway station, are right downtown. Osgoode the law school is off in the no man's land which is York University campus. Keele and Finch/Steeles is most definitely not "downtown".

[TheDevilIKnow]

This is not a comment on your main question of comparing the schools, but related to your mention of prosecution as a potential interest:

From what I've seen, it is much easier to get and keep Provincial prosecution positions in BC and (especially) Alberta, as compared to Ontario. If I understand correctly what I've read in here, Ontario Crown work often consists of a series of short-term contracts for at least the first few years. In Alberta and BC, getting a 2L position with the Crown will usually presumptively (albeit not absolutely) lead to a permanent position as long as you don't screw up too badly.

Federal prosecutions is a very different matter, however. I believe the PPSC only recruits students directly in Toronto and Montreal. There could be another exception I'm missing (maybe Ottawa), but they definitely do not recruit in western Canada*, so it would be harder for you to pursue that path from here.

* Students recruited the the Federal Department of Justice can sometimes do a short rotation with the PPSC as part of their articling period. These may, or may not, lead to hires as counsel but it wouldn't be something I'd count on.

 

[Canlawforumuser123]

40 minutes ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

This is not a comment on your main question of comparing the schools, but related to your mention of prosecution as a potential interest:

From what I've seen, it is much easier to get and keep Provincial prosecution positions in BC and (especially) Alberta, as compared to Ontario. If I understand correctly what I've read in here, Ontario Crown work often consists of a series of short-term contracts for at least the first few years. In Alberta and BC, getting a 2L position with the Crown will usually presumptively (albeit not absolutely) lead to a permanent position as long as you don't screw up too badly.

Federal prosecutions is a very different matter, however. I believe the PPSC only recruits students directly in Toronto and Montreal. There could be another exception I'm missing (maybe Ottawa), but they definitely do not recruit in western Canada*, so it would be harder for you to pursue that path from here.

* Students recruited the the Federal Department of Justice can sometimes do a short rotation with the PPSC as part of their articling period. These may, or may not, lead to hires as counsel but it wouldn't be something I'd count on.

 

Thanks for your input! I thought I was still confused about prosecution but you've cleared some doubts I had!