Just how disqualifying is having a 'C' for top firms (2L recruit)?

[Dnian]

Bay Street, Top Litigation boutiques, etc. How many Cs can you have before it becomes disqualifying (unless you have an exemplary resume)? Or is it more-so about an overall average above a certain cutoff?

I know the answer is likely gonna be "it depends", but any insight would be appreciated. 🙂

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Dnian

[LMP]

Really hard to speak in broad strokes about a process that can differ so much not only from firm to firm, but from person to person. 

But if I was to give a sort of general answer, the trouble truly starts at two or more C's. One C you can always kind of make excuses for, especially if it's in a subject most people don't care about. But, beyond that it starts to look bad and given how few marks you get in 1L, starts to hurt. 

Of course that doesn't mean no one ever gets a job with a couple of C's on their transcripts. Lots of people do. But as for when it starts to have a significant determential impact on your big law/botqiue chances? I'd start to worry a lot more at two C's than I would at one. 

[sarcasticlemon]

Many Bay st firms get over 1000 applications an OCI cycle, and will usually cut that down by looking at grades. I only have Bs and I think that was a major reason why I wasn't successful in the Toronto Recruit. That doesn't mean you have no chance, but your options will be more limited. Unless you have all As with one C. Sadly, this is just the way that is it. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by sarcasticlemon

[Rashabon]

5 minutes ago, sarcasticlemon said:

Many Bay st firms get over 1000 applications an OCI cycle, and will usually cut that down by looking at grades. I only have Bs and I think that was a major reason why I wasn't successful in the Toronto Recruit. That doesn't mean you have no chance, but your options will be more limited. Unless you have all As with one C. Sadly, this is just the way that is it. 

I disagree with this and agree more with LMP. You do not need all As to balance out a C, but as the Cs start to accumulate, the chances of getting past an initial screening decrease.

[WhoKnows]

18 hours ago, LMP said:

can differ so much not only from firm to firm, but from person to person. 

Emphasis on this. There are varying opinions within firms on the usefulness of grades to evaluate talent. Some folks think even 1 C is too many, others think 2 are fine provided the remainder of the grades are good and other pieces of your application draw their eye. All Cs or all As will reflect poorly/negatively nearly universally. 

You want to try to not have to get the right person reading your application to get past the screen, and every added C makes that harder. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by WhoKnows

[Dnian]

Let's say someone has two As, two B+, and a C from first semester. From what I understand, that still places in the top third of the class, at least if you're at my law school.

Will you be viewed more negatively than someone with straight B average, just for having the C? I know that's tough to answer, but I am trying to get a lens for just how much of a connotation the C brings with it. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Dnian
typo

[Rashabon]

Probably better than someone with straight Bs given everything else is above average.

[QueensDenning]

2 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

All Cs or all As will reflect poorly/negatively nearly universally. 

I kind of disagree. If I saw a transcript with all As and like 3 or 4Cs (assuming this is a 2L or 3L), I'd prefer that student over a straight B student. It's hard to get As, and arguably also sort of hard to get Cs - for me a transcript like that would show me that the student was really interested in some subjects, and had the ability to consistently get As, but sort of mailed it in and didn't try for the other classes. As a 3L in my last semester, I can certainly sympathize.

Edited March 22, 2023 by QueensDenning

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, QueensDenning said:

I kind of disagree. If I saw a transcript with all As and like 3 or 4Cs (assuming this is a 2L or 3L), I'd prefer that student over a straight B student. It's hard to get As, and arguably also sort of hard to get Cs - for me a transcript like that would show me that the student was really interested in some subjects, and had the ability to consistently get As, but sort of mailed it in and didn't try for the other classes. As a 3L in my last semester, I can certainly sympathize.

If I saw a transcript with a bunch of A's and four C's, I wouldn't be looking at a transcript with all A's or all C's, would I?

[Mbu1]

Agreed. It is reassuring to see a few or many A's on a transcript. It shows an ability to be among the best in certain subjects, even if it's accompanied by a few C+ (not C). But all B's just means that you were good but were never able to produce great work.

[BlockedQuebecois]

4 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

all As will reflect poorly/negatively nearly universally.

Yeah, nobody wants to work with a bunch of fucking nerds. 

[Jaggers]

That's why I got a B+ in evidence!

[WhoKnows]

11 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Yeah, nobody wants to work with a bunch of fucking nerds. 

I am a moron. That should read poorly/positively. Don't mind me.  

I need to get more than 4 hours of sleep tonight. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by WhoKnows

[QueensDenning]

28 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

If I saw a transcript with a bunch of A's and four C's, I wouldn't be looking at a transcript with all A's or all C's, would I?

I thought it would be absurd to suggest that a transcript with all A's would reflect poorly/negatively, so assumed you meant all A's or/and all C's (either As or Cs and no other grade). 

Edited March 22, 2023 by QueensDenning

[CleanHands]

2 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

I thought it would be absurd to suggest that a transcript with all A's would reflect poorly/negatively

Viewed negatively because if they have all A's they are obviously too smart to work in BigLaw for any meaningful length of time.

[sarcasticlemon]

8 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I disagree with this and agree more with LMP. You do not need all As to balance out a C, but as the Cs start to accumulate, the chances of getting past an initial screening decrease.

Sorry didn’t mean to imply you needed all As to balance out a C. I just mean that they tend to want the top third of the class, and a C may impact OP’s chances of being in the top third

3 hours ago, Mbu1 said:

Agreed. It is reassuring to see a few or many A's on a transcript. It shows an ability to be among the best in certain subjects, even if it's accompanied by a few C+ (not C). But all B's just means that you were good but were never able to produce great work.

Roasted 😂😂😂 however I will say because law school is such tight margins on As (at least at queens they can only give out a certain number) you could have a B and still have done great work… just one of your classmates had GREATER work

Edited March 23, 2023 by sarcasticlemon
Clarification

[WhoKnows]

3 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

I thought it would be absurd to suggest that a transcript with all A's would reflect poorly/negatively, so assumed you meant all A's or/and all C's (either As or Cs and no other grade). 

Yea, it was supposed to be that all A's is universally good, all C's universally bad.

[OzLaw16]

8 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

for me a transcript like that would show me that the student was really interested in some subjects, and had the ability to consistently get As, but sort of mailed it in and didn't try for the other classes

I'm not part of hiring at my firm, but having summered and articled at a BigLaw firm, if this was my impression of a student, that would raise serious red flags for me. Unless you're applying to a specialized boutique firm, you will almost inevitably have to do a significant amount of work in areas you're not interested in during your summer and articling (and, depending on how your firm groups associates, maybe even for your first few years as an associate). I would want to hire someone who I believe will produce roughly the same quality of work on files they find dry as they would on files they find riveting. Knowing a student has a tendency to only try hard on things they like and "mail in" the rest would likely be viewed as a major liability at most large full service firms.

None of this is to say I think an all-Bs transcript is necessarily better than a half-As/half-Cs transcript, but if I were to make an argument for why the half-and-half transcript is better, this certainly wouldn't be the one I'd make.

[IacobucciFanGirl]

I know this may not be helpful because from what I’ve read it seems like a rare experience but I figured it was helpful to add to the mix here. 
 

I finished 1L with 1 A, 2Cs and the rest Bs and I landed a job at a seven sister firm in Toronto. So it is certainly possible to do with Cs - what I will say is that I networked my ass off and have quite a bit of corporate work from the years after my Bcomm but still… 

I think what this demonstrates is that it truly is impossible to predict how a student will be viewed or how your recruit experience will go because there is so much nuance and a ton of variables. 

[CleanHands]

This depends on how physically attractive you are and whether you have nepotism connections.