Toronto vs Ottawa

[non-monogamist]

I know that there are more opportunities in Toronto and that the salaries are generally higher, but I feel like I would be significantly happier living in Ottawa (family is from Kanata). I know that choosing where to live is n incredibly personal decision, but I’m hoping to get a better sense of what exactly the opportunity cost would be and how much money I’d be leaving on the table if I decided to practice in the Ottawa region as opposed to the GTA. The only benefit that I can see to being in Toronto is that the city is more progressive/accepting of alternative lifestyles (I’m Bi and have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend), but as far as I can tell most law firms are still very old fashioned so the city I work in probably won’t make much of a difference.

In addition, if there are any lawyers on here currently practicing in Ottawa I’d also like to know: 

-Does the lower cost of living compensate for the lower salaries?

-Is it more common for people to have a healthy work-life balance? Are the billable hours target at BLG Ottawa lower than BLG  Toronto? 

-Should I prioritize large firms (Fasken, Norton Rose, Gowlings…etc.) or boutiques (Emond Harnden, Nelligan) if I want to practice labour and employment?

-Would it be advantageous for me to start my career in Toronto and then try to lateral Ottawa later on? Or is there enough opportunity within Ottawa to start working there right away? 

[QueensDenning]

13 minutes ago, non-monogamist said:

I know that there are more opportunities in Toronto and that the salaries are generally higher, but I feel like I would be significantly happier living in Ottawa (family is from Kanata). I know that choosing where to live is n incredibly personal decision, but I’m hoping to get a better sense of what exactly the opportunity cost would be and how much money I’d be leaving on the table if I decided to practice in the Ottawa region as opposed to the GTA. The only benefit that I can see to being in Toronto is that the city is more progressive/accepting of alternative lifestyles (I’m Bi and have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend), but as far as I can tell most law firms are still very old fashioned so the city I work in probably won’t make much of a difference.

In addition, if there are any lawyers on here currently practicing in Ottawa I’d also like to know: 

-Does the lower cost of living compensate for the lower salaries?

-Is it more common for people to have a healthy work-life balance? Are the billable hours target at BLG Ottawa lower than BLG  Toronto? 

-Should I prioritize large firms (Fasken, Norton Rose, Gowlings…etc.) or boutiques (Emond Harnden, Nelligan) if I want to practice labour and employment?

-Would it be advantageous for me to start my career in Toronto and then try to lateral Ottawa later on? Or is there enough opportunity within Ottawa to start working there right away? 

Articling/summer salaries are about half of what they are in Toronto. I can't imagine the lower COL makes up for the lower salary, but I don't know how the salaries play out in associate years. 

[non-monogamist]

@QueensDenning thanks for the reply. I did see that NALP. Unfortunately the website does not have all the Ottawa firms listed on it but you’re right, the trend is probably pretty consistent. 

[QueensDenning]

5 minutes ago, non-monogamist said:

@QueensDenning thanks for the reply. I did see that NALP. Unfortunately the website does not have all the Ottawa firms listed on it but you’re right, the trend is probably pretty consistent. 

NALP will typically have the highest paying firms for each region. Firms don't want to advertise that they pay below market, but I don't think they'd be shy about publicizing above market pay. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by QueensDenning

[non-monogamist]

2 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

NALP will typically have the highest paying firms for each region. Firms don't want to advertise that they pay below market, but I don't think they'd be shy about publicizing above market pay. 

Wow now I’m even more concerned if that’s what the Ottawa firms are choosing to advertise lol.

[QMT20]

4 hours ago, non-monogamist said:

The only benefit that I can see to being in Toronto is that the city is more progressive/accepting of alternative lifestyles (I’m Bi and have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend), but as far as I can tell most law firms are still very old fashioned so the city I work in probably won’t make much of a difference.

This is limited to my personal experiences at a full service Bay Street firm and those of people around me but I personally do not find "most law firms are still very old fashioned". I think at least on an organizational level the full service firms are pretty accepting of different lifestyle choices and most encourage you to be yourself. Some specific lawyers at any firm may be less open to alternative lifestyles. However, even the conservative lawyers at my firm tended to be liberal on social issues. 

4 hours ago, non-monogamist said:

 

-Is it more common for people to have a healthy work-life balance? Are the billable hours target at BLG Ottawa lower than BLG  Toronto? 

I don't have a real answer on whether the Ottawa or Toronto office of the same full service law firm would provide a better work life balance. However, I would caution that billable hour targets are a flawed indicator of work life balance at any given firm/office. Ultimately, work life balance as a student is determined by whether you work with demanding lawyers. Even within the same office of the same firm experiences vary and since everyone is a stranger when you join, there's a degree of luck to how your experience plays out. 

4 hours ago, non-monogamist said:

 

-Should I prioritize large firms (Fasken, Norton Rose, Gowlings…etc.) or boutiques (Emond Harnden, Nelligan) if I want to practice labour and employment?

Unless you're sure you want to practice labour and employment law, I would recommend prioritizing a full service firm. Even if you have a suspicion, many students don't really know what area they want to practice until they've tried it firsthand. If you're not already sold on one area, a full service firm provides more flexibility. While I don't know much about the Ottawa office of any of those firms, the Toronto office of Fasken and Norton Rose have relatively large labour and employment groups and they would be a good place to start if that's the area you want to practice in any event. 

[MiceInRice]

19 hours ago, non-monogamist said:

I know that there are more opportunities in Toronto and that the salaries are generally higher, but I feel like I would be significantly happier living in Ottawa (family is from Kanata). I know that choosing where to live is n incredibly personal decision, but I’m hoping to get a better sense of what exactly the opportunity cost would be and how much money I’d be leaving on the table if I decided to practice in the Ottawa region as opposed to the GTA. The only benefit that I can see to being in Toronto is that the city is more progressive/accepting of alternative lifestyles (I’m Bi and have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend), but as far as I can tell most law firms are still very old fashioned so the city I work in probably won’t make much of a difference.

In addition, if there are any lawyers on here currently practicing in Ottawa I’d also like to know: 

-Does the lower cost of living compensate for the lower salaries?

-Is it more common for people to have a healthy work-life balance? Are the billable hours target at BLG Ottawa lower than BLG  Toronto? 

-Should I prioritize large firms (Fasken, Norton Rose, Gowlings…etc.) or boutiques (Emond Harnden, Nelligan) if I want to practice labour and employment?

-Would it be advantageous for me to start my career in Toronto and then try to lateral Ottawa later on? Or is there enough opportunity within Ottawa to start working there right away? 

The cost of living is skyrocketing in Ottawa so that's something to consider - housing cost might be a bit better in Kanata where your family is. Student salaries at national firms appear to have just increased to 65k, and 1st year associates tend to make ~95k. I'm sure the pay scale varies firm to firm after that. It sounds like some firms have been in that range for years and others just recently increased to that range. I expect the regional firms would pay less than that. The people I've spoken to at the national firms tend have almost the same or the same billable targets as their Toronto colleagues.