Law school recruiting grades and being a 1L

[Legally_Chase]

Hi everyone! I have a couple questions about the importance of undergraduate grades for 1L/2L recruitment and workload as a 1L.

1. I am very lucky to get into law school given my undergraduate performance during my first couple years. I graduated with a 2.9ish CGPA (3.4ish L2). I worked hard to do well in my master's degree and the LSAT so that I can have a chance at law school. I also have have some pretty good work experience with a track record of good performance. For anyone who is informed or has personally gone through the recruitment, how will my applications be looked at with my undergraduate grades and will they impact my ability to do well (this is assuming my LS grades are competitive). 

2. How many pages of assigned reading are students expected to complete on a weekly basis during 1L? 

 

Thanks to everyone in advance for your advice!

[lawfacade123]

Anecdotally, I heard that undergrad transcripts were mostly just to get insight into your background and what kind of courses you took. Who knows though, it could depend on who's looking at your application.

[Renerik]

Re: question 2

Professors will assign ~10-50 pages of reading per class for approximately 100-300 pages of readings per week.

[cactusjack6]

4 hours ago, Legally_Chase said:

Hi everyone! I have a couple questions about the importance of undergraduate grades for 1L/2L recruitment and workload as a 1L.

1. I am very lucky to get into law school given my undergraduate performance during my first couple years. I graduated with a 2.9ish CGPA (3.4ish L2). I worked hard to do well in my master's degree and the LSAT so that I can have a chance at law school. I also have have some pretty good work experience with a track record of good performance. For anyone who is informed or has personally gone through the recruitment, how will my applications be looked at with my undergraduate grades and will they impact my ability to do well (this is assuming my LS grades are competitive). 

2. How many pages of assigned reading are students expected to complete on a weekly basis during 1L? 

 

Thanks to everyone in advance for your advice!

Which recruit? Toronto 1L?

[Legally_Chase]

21 minutes ago, cactusjack6 said:

Which recruit? Toronto 1L?

That's right, I am attending a school in Ontario. It could be both 1L or 2L recruit. I recognize that 1L is very competitive and it is not an expectation that I have to obtain a 1L legal position.

[cactusjack6]

6 hours ago, Legally_Chase said:

That's right, I am attending a school in Ontario. It could be both 1L or 2L recruit. I recognize that 1L is very competitive and it is not an expectation that I have to obtain a 1L legal position.

Undergraduate grades are there to help firms gain a more extensive understanding of your background as a student and your track record. At the time of 1L recruit, they only have one semester of law school grades to assess you on and by 2L recruit they only have two semesters to assess. While weaker undergraduate grades can be negated by a strong performance in your first two semesters in law school...mediocre or poor performance in your 1L year will be exacerbated by a track record of similar grades. 

Simply put, if you do well in your first two semesters in law school (above average of a B), then you should not worry too much about your undergraduate grades. 

As for how much reading we get in law school, the classic law school answer...it depends. However, on average I would say there is about 180-200 pages of reading per week for all courses combined.

[Legally_Chase]

1 hour ago, cactusjack6 said:

Undergraduate grades are there to help firms gain a more extensive understanding of your background as a student and your track record. At the time of 1L recruit, they only have one semester of law school grades to assess you on and by 2L recruit they only have two semesters to assess. While weaker undergraduate grades can be negated by a strong performance in your first two semesters in law school...mediocre or poor performance in your 1L year will be exacerbated by a track record of similar grades. 

Simply put, if you do well in your first two semesters in law school (above average of a B), then you should not worry too much about your undergraduate grades. 

As for how much reading we get in law school, the classic law school answer...it depends. However, on average I would say there is about 180-200 pages of reading per week for all courses combined.

Thank you very much for your response, I really appreciate it. Honestly, I am aware that firms can become very picky as many people going through law school recruitment are incredible and there are few coveted roles. Guess the only thing in my control is to crush law school and create an application to highlight why those grades are not representative of who I am now. 

I really need to start reading more and get used to it, have not been in an academic environment in several years!

[ccounsel2024]

Poor undergrad grades did not bar me from getting 1L interviews and securing a job in the 2L recruit in Toronto (much lower GPA than yours). It also did not bar me from transferring schools. 
 

My friend in 1L had a poor undergrad GPA and landed in the 1L recruit, but he also had a phD. Basically, I wouldn’t worry about it.

[ruthlessfox]

Obviously your first semester law school grades will matter the most, but unless there are associates lurking here who are involved in recruiting, I don't think anyone really knows how much your undergraduate transcript matters. It may vary at the firm or even the individual recruiter-level. Firms always ask for it at the application stage, but anecdotally I have never once been asked anything about it in any recruit I've participated in.

[BlockedQuebecois]

15 minutes ago, ruthlessfox said:

unless there are associates lurking here who are involved in recruiting

A pretty significant number of posters over the years have been people involved in recruiting.

The answer is that the importance of undergraduate grades will vary from firm to firm and person to person. But it will be pretty universally true that of all the components of your application (cover letter, resume, and transcripts), non-law transcripts will be the least important. 

[Scrivener]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:04 AM, Legally_Chase said:

I really need to start reading more and get used to it, have not been in an academic environment in several years!

A mature student? What you've done since your undergraduate may speak far more than the undergraduate grades you're concerned about! I would (and did) play up those experiences.

[Legally_Chase]

43 minutes ago, Scrivener said:

A mature student? What you've done since your undergraduate may speak far more than the undergraduate grades you're concerned about! I would (and did) play up those experiences.

Yes, I am a going to be a mature student. I am very confident in my resume and all the experience since graduating so the best and only thing would be to highlight that. 

Furthermore, thanks a lot to all the others for their advice and insight. Looking back it does seem like a pretty silly question to ask as there is nothing much I can do about my old undergraduate grades from so many years ago. Best to focus on doing well as a 1L. Thanks again!!

[Turtles]

1 hour ago, Legally_Chase said:

 Furthermore, thanks a lot to all the others for their advice and insight. Looking back it does seem like a pretty silly question to ask as there is nothing much I can do about my old undergraduate grades from so many years ago. Best to focus on doing well as a 1L. Thanks again!!

I don't think it's a silly question at all.

Despite significant work experience and competitive law school grades, I had one firm ask me about a particular grade that was nearly 10 years old! And you never really know if a firm didn't give you an OCI, or chose not to proceed with you to in-firms, partly or wholly because your undergraduate grades were deemed a red flag. Meanwhile I've had firms straight up say "obviously you have really good grades or you wouldn't be here!". Different firms and different people within a firm will care about undergrad grades to different degrees, so you can't avoid the potential you may be subject to scrutiny on less competitive undergrad grades despite being particularly competitive through other factors in your application.

You just have to remember that most applicants don't have lengthy work experience or accomplishments on which firms can make decisions, and the reviewers are humans who may look for and remember some things (e.g., like a bad grade) more than less common things (e.g., like a rare award you won), so it's easy for them to default to looking at and drawing comparisons based on law grades and undergrad grades rather than comparing applications holistically. Anticipate that, have answers prepared in case they ask, but be sure to appropriately highlight your strong points (e.g., experience, accomplishments). You likely bring a lot more to the table than your undergrad grades, so the onus is on you to highlight your own merits and make them want you back.

[Legally_Chase]

20 hours ago, Turtles said:

I don't think it's a silly question at all.

Despite significant work experience and competitive law school grades, I had one firm ask me about a particular grade that was nearly 10 years old! And you never really know if a firm didn't give you an OCI, or chose not to proceed with you to in-firms, partly or wholly because your undergraduate grades were deemed a red flag. Meanwhile I've had firms straight up say "obviously you have really good grades or you wouldn't be here!". Different firms and different people within a firm will care about undergrad grades to different degrees, so you can't avoid the potential you may be subject to scrutiny on less competitive undergrad grades despite being particularly competitive through other factors in your application.

You just have to remember that most applicants don't have lengthy work experience or accomplishments on which firms can make decisions, and the reviewers are humans who may look for and remember some things (e.g., like a bad grade) more than less common things (e.g., like a rare award you won), so it's easy for them to default to looking at and drawing comparisons based on law grades and undergrad grades rather than comparing applications holistically. Anticipate that, have answers prepared in case they ask, but be sure to appropriately highlight your strong points (e.g., experience, accomplishments). You likely bring a lot more to the table than your undergrad grades, so the onus is on you to highlight your own merits and make them want you back.

Totally agree with this! With many different lawyers from different backgrounds looking at files to make decisions, there are always going to be instances in which opinions differ and the outcome can be unfavorable to candidates like me.  

[SNAILS]

My opinion is that your undergrad grades themselves will not matter in law firm recruits. Most people do not even work in law after 1L. By 2L and 3L, undergrad is almost forgotten and overshadowed by law school grades and achievements. 

It matters a lot too if you dream outcome from the recruit is to work in "big law" (aka "Bay Street"), or if you are more like me and prefer to work for a smaller, mid level firm (where average grades will get you in the door no problem).

However, you relatively low undergrad GPA indicates that you need to work harder in law school than you did in undergrad!