Burned out Summer Student

[RP27]

Hey all,

This is half me asking for advice, and half me just wanting to rant. I'm entering 3L this September and have been summering at a litigation boutique in Toronto.

The workload has been intense (at least it has been for me). I have anywhere from 1-3 assignments per day. They range in size but are typically things like Statements of Claim, Replies, doc review, AODs, preparing motion materials, mediation briefs, undertaking charts, research, taking discovery notes, etc. I've been working around 12 hours a day (less on weekends). I've only taken 2 weekend days off since I started. I regularly get assignments on Friday afternoons that are due the following Monday. 

Honestly, I'm exhausted and feel like I'm barely keeping up with my workload. I haven't seen my friends in ages, zero social life to speak of. The other students here seem like they're doing fine, and I'm churning out less work than them. I'm concerned I'm just too slow and not cut out for private practice.

I would speak with the student coordinator, but the last thing I want to do is admit I'm not handling the pace right before articling hire backs. I have been getting good feedback on my work, so I think my chances of being kept on are solid. At the same time, however, I have no clue how I'll keep up with articling here if I'm already barely hanging on as a summer.

Finally, I don't want to give the impression that this has been a purely negative experience - the people at the firm are lovely and supportive. Plus, I really do love the work. There's just SO much of it.

If anyone has felt the same way as I do, I would appreciate any advice you could provide. How did things work out for you? Also would love to get some thoughts on the workload - is it typical? Is it actually not that much work, and I'm just taking way too long on assignments? Thanks in advance.

Edited June 16, 2023 by RP27

[CleanHands]

For what it's worth, that actually does sound like a lot of work for a student to me. And some experienced lawyers forget that it will take a student who doesn't know how anything works 5 times as long to do something as it will take them, and it will be 10 times as stressful.

You say other students there "seem" like they're doing fine...which indicates to me that this is something you've never explicitly talked about with them. I would wager that some of them probably are in the same boat and think the same about you, but everyone is keeping it close to their chests for the same reasons that you are. If you're close to any of them, I'd explicitly broach it and see how they are feeling about the workload.

If the firm is friendly and supportive, and you aren't alone, it might be worth mentioning.

[Turtles]

2 hours ago, RP27 said:

Hey all,

This is half me asking for advice, and half me just wanting to rant. I'm entering 3L this September and have been summering at a litigation boutique in Toronto.

The workload has been intense (at least it has been for me). I have anywhere from 1-3 assignments per day. They range in size but are typically things like Statements of Claim, Replies, doc review, AODs, preparing motion materials, mediation briefs, undertaking charts, research, taking discovery notes, etc. I've been working around 12 hours a day (less on weekends). I've only taken 2 weekend days off since I started. I regularly get assignments on Friday afternoons that are due the following Monday. 

Honestly, I'm exhausted and feel like I'm barely keeping up with my workload. I haven't seen my friends in ages, zero social life to speak of. The other students here seem like they're doing fine, and I'm churning out less work than them. I'm concerned I'm just too slow and not cut out for private practice.

I would speak with the student coordinator, but the last thing I want to do is admit I'm not handling the pace right before articling hire backs. I have been getting good feedback on my work, so I think my chances of being kept on are solid. At the same time, however, I have no clue how I'll keep up with articling here if I'm already barely hanging on as a summer.

Finally, I don't want to give the impression that this has been a purely negative experience - the people at the firm are lovely and supportive. Plus, I really do love the work. There's just SO much of it.

If anyone has felt the same way as I do, I would appreciate any advice you could provide. How did things work out for you? Also would love to get some thoughts on the workload - is it typical? Is it actually not that much work, and I'm just taking way too long on assignments? Thanks in advance.

It's really important to be kind to yourself. You are doing new stuff. It's all probably very different than law school. It may take longer to get the hang of it than others. Others may have more practice or experience. Their tasks may be materially different. People tend not to be vocal about sharing their mistakes or admitting they feel like they're drowning. Just because you don't enjoy your first day of snowboarding when you fall every 3 minutes and feel miserable doesn't mean you won't enjoy going down the mountain when you can maneuver with your eyes closed.

It's possible they are giving you more work (not just quantity of assignments, but amount of work per assignment or the substantiveness of each, or maybe they like to give you disproportionately more of the time sensitive stuff) because they trust you or because you have proven yourself or you have some backgrounds other don't. You think you output less than others, but I want to highlight that the output is only one measure of the difficulty (it can require a hell of a lot more research to give a short definitive answer vs a long wishy washy one).

It's also possible you are getting less work but need more time to get into the groove. And that's OK. You're a summer student. You're supposed to be learning. You will get faster and you will figure out what you actually dislike vs what you dislike only because it was painful on the first go or two or because you only saw one side of it as a summer student. Students do mostly grunt work, that shouldn't put you off sticking through and becoming an associate or partner.

Use precedents and technology: don't waste time doing things the slow way because you dont know what your firm has available. Be kind to yourself. Get good sleep. Treat yourself. Talk to friends. Get close to your cohort. Don't compare yourself to others. Monitor your own progress and see how much you grow: benchmark against where you started, not where others might be. Learning isn't linear. And the big thing to realize: summer is a marathon, not a sprint. Enjoy the Toronto patios.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Turtles

[Aureliuse]

A huge time-saver is ask your principal for "excellent work samples."

1. You dont need to re-invent the wheel

2. You know what kind of quality your principal expects

3. You learn how to do something by modeling existing work (wording, format, form, style etc.)

4. You might even look at how the opposing counsel does something (assuming he/she is good lol).

5. Saves a lot of time and stress.

6. Your principal need not explain things to you, you learn just by emulating.

The feeling of "I have no idea what I am doing" and "What do I do now" is normal, will follow you when you become an associate starting out. I had this feeling for many years since my call.

I have drafting templates for orders, claims, undertakings, questions, and pleadings. Start compiling your own template for various relief/material facts, it'll save you time in the future.

[LMP]

Don't be afraid to share when you are at capicty. Given your workload and output, no one is likely to think you are malingering. 

Also, coordinate more with your cohort! I don't know how you're getting assigned task but it certainly seems like the workload can be more evenly distributed. 

[Whist]

Also a summer student going into 3L here. It might just be my experience given the nature of the firm I work at, but it sounds like you have a lot on your plate for a summer student. It's not often I have to do work outside of my workday, and I'm not putting in 12 hours a day either. If I were you, I'd have a chat with the other students. I suspect they're in a similar boat, although it's possible you are just getting more work. No way to know unless you ask!

My firm gives me access to a bunch of templates/previously done examples to work off of when I'm drafting something. If you can get something similar going, it helps a lot to have those on hand. Also, having an open dialogue about your workloads. The lawyers will often just make it known that they have work for anyone who has capacity to take it on (although they will also sometimes assign work specifically), and this system helps keep any one individual from getting too overloaded.

[RP27]

Thank you so much to everyone for your kind words and valuable tips - what an awesome community you folks have on here! 

@CleanHands You're correct, I haven't asked the other students directly how they find the workload. I've asked indirect questions like "How's your week going" and tried to gauge based on that. To be fair, there is one student that is just straight up a machine (in a good/enviable way!), and I'm almost 100% confident they are doing fine. But I agree, it's totally possible if I'm not being totally transparent, the rest aren't either. I've got a student in mind that I might try and have a more open chat with to see where they're at. 

@Turtles This is absolutely lovely advice and made me feel much better, thank you. I've talked to friends and family about my situation, and they overwhelmingly say "noooo, I'm sure you're doing just as much work!!" so it's reassuring to have someone say, maybe you are a bit slow right now, and that's okay. I'll try and focus more on my own improvement versus comparison. 

@Aureliuse That's an excellent idea, thanks. I've begun to build a precedent database for different document types but hadn't considered building material facts/relief precedents, that seems like it would be really handy. 

@LMP No question, I need to work on expressing my capacity to others. I think before articling decisions, since I want to get as many good data points as possible, I've just been too scared to turn anything down. I'll work on that.

As for our distribution, we have a basic rotation. We chat amongst ourselves and adjust the order as needed, but no one has skipped a round completely yet. We also get work assigned to us directly. I've noticed over the past few weeks I'm getting a lot more direct assignments. It's tough when it comes to coordinating with the other students - the direct assignments are always meatier and more interesting, so I don't want to turn them down. However, I also don't want the other students to feel like I'm not doing my part in the rotation! 

@Whist Thanks for your perspective. Yeah, your summer experience seems more in line with the friends I have chatted with as well. You're right, I should probably ask the other students where they're at - I think a part of me is terrified they'll all say they're totally fine lol. I'll work on my precedent database. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by RP27

[Ribbons]

Goodness, I am feeling burnt out in my position and I am maybe working 10 hour days on the worst of days. I would by dying if I was in your shoes, but I am also definitely not cut out for that work. I care way too much about work life balance. It is INSANITY to me that this is allowed. The complete disregard for workers' rights in law is mind boggling. I fully expect to be working that hard in articling, but SUMMER STUDENT? I think its insane given that this will then leave you exhausted started 3L (never mind already being burnt out after 2L). Toronto seems to have really lost its grip with reality as I have heard this sort of thing from many other folks. I am SO sorry you're dealing with this.

[SNAILS]

My workload as a summer student going into 3L is 10-11 hours per weekday, usually 0-6 on a Saturday.  I feel I'm on the upper end of the workload that I can manage. This is Crim/Family for context.

@RP27, they are giving you too much I think, and you need to find a way to cut it back or you will not be able to keep up. That will also hurt you for hire backs. If I'm 55 hr/wk, it sounds like you are ~72 hr/wk. Your workload is not manageable.

How do you get the principle lawyer off your back? When he comes with task D, say that you need to out some more time into tasks A, B, C to make them proper. 

It seems some law students summering do things faster than others. Generally, (or sometimes?) the quality of an output is reflected in the work that goes into it. I have a colleague 2L summer student whose doing 40 hr / wk (I guess) and his work output reflects that, from what I see. For example, a brief referred to the wrong number of children in one entry, some of the case law is irrelevant, and in one place there was an argument that was 100% for the opposing side and 100% against our side (with case law in support).

@RP27, you need to look for things that will carry you through this "boot camp." One time a judge said that my principle lawyer's submissions (aka my submissions that I wrote) were excellent. That's the type of stuff that carries me through.

Stay strong. See the light an the end of the tunnel. Good luck.

[Cool_name]

If you are getting lots of work, that means you are liked (with the exception of pure document review that doesn’t mean anything). 

It’s probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but it’s good to get to the verge of burnout, as then you know where the limit is and can work to avoid it. Everyone’s limit is different and changes. Now that you are at the verge though, you need to tread carefully and not overdue it.

You have two options at this point: 

1. keep you head down and keep grinding in hopes that you make it through (maybe the workload lightens up?); or

2. start being vocal about your capacity. 
 

Number 2 is probably the better option. You can be gentle about it. “I have project x due on Monday, is it okay if I get this to you by Friday?”, but the more gentle you are the more likely the senior lawyer will insist on the work being done still. Playing the politics of workload is something lawyers need to learn to do. Later in life, the same game applies, it is just clients you are dealing with instead.
 

 

 

[JohnnyCochrane68]

The reality is that seniors want juniors who are willing to be exploited. Nobody wants to hear a junior talk about boundaries - they want to feel magnanimous and be the ones who tell you "not to stay too late" after they've dumped a rush factum in your lap.

[Cool_name]

1 minute ago, JohnnyCochrane68 said:

The reality is that seniors want juniors who are willing to be exploited. Nobody wants to hear a junior talk about boundaries - they want to feel magnanimous and be the ones who tell you "not to stay too late" after they've dumped a rush factum in your lap.

Replace seniors with clients and you described the practice of law. 
 

The stereotype for a lawyer is a workaholic, not someone who finishes at 5. 
 

Managing burnout is important however, because failure to manage it will result in less billable hours in the end 😋

[FlyingFish]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:19 PM, RP27 said:

I would speak with the student coordinator, but the last thing I want to do is admit I'm not handling the pace right before articling hire backs. I have been getting good feedback on my work, so I think my chances of being kept on are solid. At the same time, however, I have no clue how I'll keep up with articling here if I'm already barely hanging on as a summer

In addition to trying to modify how you actually do the work such as collaborating more with other students or relying more on templates as suggested above, I would also suggest speaking to your principal or student coordinator.

Furthermore, if they don’t hire you back why do you care? Do you really want to work at a firm like this for 7 years with the hope of making partner one day? That sounds to me like voluntarily wasting a huge chunk of your life. You are surely a smart person; getting hired back is not your only option!

Edited June 27, 2023 by FlyingFish