Which is the better option? Windsor (no scholarship), or a top 50 US school (full ride).

[SaulBadman]

I'm a Canadian student who's facing a tough decision. I've been accepted to a lower-ranked Canadian law school without a scholarship, but I've also received a full ride scholarship to a top 50 law school in the United States. If I decide to come back to Canada to work, I'm curious about how having an American degree would measure up against Canadian degrees. Would it still give me decent job prospects here? And what about the salary? How much could I expect to earn as a lawyer in the US right after graduating compared to what I could earn in Canada? Ultimately, I want to know which degree would be more financially rewarding for me. These are the things that are keeping me up at night, and any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! 

[Whist]

If you want to practice in Canada, Windsor is the better choice without question. If you want to practice in the US, the US school is the better choice. A T50 is probably going to be treated like most foreign non-Ivey/non Oxbridge schools in Canada, so I wouldn't go there with the intention to come back. I have no idea what your prospects would be in the US since I don't know which American school it is and I'm not sure what you hope to practice generally. 

Windsor (single) is a fine program, but if that's the only Canadian one you got into, I'm a little concerned about the prospects of the T50 you got accepted at. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Whist

[Yogurt Baron]

Usual disclaimer, since you're new: I'm the board mascot, not a lawyer, and I know nothing.

You seem to really have "rankings" on the brain, and...that's not really how it works in Canada. That's true both in the sense that Windsor being "lower-ranked" (in what? Says who?) does not make it an objectively worse option than other Canadian schools in the way that being ranked 98th makes a U.S. school worse than Harvard, and in that no Canadian legal employer is going to see that you graduated from the 49th-ranked U.S. school and say, "Wow, that's a T50! This applicant is way better than someone who went to the 51st-best school!" They're going to see just about any American school they haven't heard of and think, "This person went to this school I've never heard of because they couldn't get into a Canadian law school." That's an unnecessary hit to take when you actually have gotten into a Canadian law school.

If you:

a., want to practice in Canada;

and

b., are the kind of person who needs to ask internet strangers for advice rather than just asking your lawyer uncle who's promised to leave you his thriving law firm when he retires in five years;

then go to school in Canada. I know tons of lawyers who've turned Windsor degrees into very successful careers - and tons of money, since that's what you seem to care most about. Best of luck.

[AllanC]

Be careful about conditions to continue your scholarship. Many american schools will make the conditions such that they are near impossible to fulfill, and as a result leave you paying an insane sticker for years two and three. 

Also, some years back when I looked into it I found that american degrees tend to be fairly regional in that outside of T14 there seems to be less ability to move around the country. So if you go to the T50 you best want to practice where that school is located.

[helloall]

What is with people on this forum and not naming schools? 

If it's Fordham, yes you take it over Windsor. If it's Tulane, no you don't take it over Windsor. 

[RIP-Joel]

13 minutes ago, helloall said:

What is with people on this forum and not naming schools? 

If it's Fordham, yes you take it over Windsor. If it's Tulane, no you don't take it over Windsor. 

Considering OP mentioned what difficulties he would have in getting employed with a US degree, saying he should go to Fordham over windsor isn't really the best piece of advice imo. 

Windsor is a canadian school so that already puts him a foot ahead of pretty much 99% of foreign degree (I'm saving the 1 percent for ivy and oxbridge but even then I would say that someone would be better off in a canadian school than a foreign one if they wanted to come back to canada regardless of its prestige). 

Furthermore, based on my excessive linkedin and law firm website stalking, Windsor grads seem to have an equal shot as other canadian law school grads when it comes to laterals into biglaw 3 to 5 years post-call. I can't say I've seen as many or a decent amount of foreign grads (even from t50 schools in the US) who have managed to lateral into biglaw simply because it seems the stigma of a foreign degree will stick with you for a while. 

I would say OP would be much much better served with attending Windsor as opposed to attending a non-ivy or non-oxbridge law school. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by RIP-Joel

[LMP]

3 minutes ago, helloall said:

What is with people on this forum and not naming schools? 

If it's Fordham, yes you take it over Windsor. If it's Tulane, no you don't take it over Windsor. 

You aren't wrong, but we all know that if someone is saying T-50, they don't mean anything in the T-30. 

[helloall]

Okay but T20+feeder schools (e.g., Fordham) are still significantly better than Windsor. You don't see many foreign grads here because why would they want to practice BL in Canada? 

[RIP-Joel]

3 minutes ago, helloall said:

Okay but T20+feeder schools (e.g., Fordham) are still significantly better than Windsor. You don't see many foreign grads here because why would they want to practice BL in Canada? 

I don't think you understood my point. 

If OP wants to practice in the US, then yeah he should go for Fordham.

But they literally said "If I decide to come back to Canada to work, I'm curious about how having an American degree would measure up against Canadian degrees."

In this context, OP should 100% attend windsor because that would set him up better for working in canada. 

[helloall]

No I got your point - I just think the stigma is overblown and doesn't really apply to BL feeder schools.

[Ben]

Assuming that you're genuinely unsure about whether you prefer living in the US or Canada long term, I would personally probably go to, like, William & Mary over Windsor. Reasonable chance at a good US big law job if you did well at a place like that. It depends a lot on the employment outcomes at the particular school you have in mind, because they do vary a fair bit among the schools people mean when they say "top 50." I agree with @helloall that the stigma re: foreign grads struggling to find work in Canada is probably overblown and/or plagued by selection bias as far as schools in that range are concerned.

It would be interesting to know what a person with experience in recruiting thinks about this, but even then I suspect the sample size is probably pretty tiny - how many people with decent grades at mid-tier T50s are applying to Canadian firms? Maybe I'm wrong, but would be interested to be corrected. 

5 hours ago, RIP-Joel said:

Windsor is a canadian school so that already puts him a foot ahead of pretty much 99% of foreign degree (I'm saving the 1 percent for ivy and oxbridge but even then I would say that someone would be better off in a canadian school than a foreign one if they wanted to come back to canada regardless of its prestige). 

I think you would be basically insane to turn down scholarship money at a place like NYU to go to Windsor. 

[Counsel]

I don't have any experience re: US employment, but I would also look into the ability to work in the US from an immigration stand point (assuming you don't have US residency/citizenship). It's important to have a full understanding of the limits/restrictions of getting a job, changing jobs, and even deciding to take some time off while in the US, as a Canadian citizen. 

Best of luck!

[beyondsection17]

The stigma against foreign law school graduates is not overhyped. It is very real. If you want to work in Canada you should go to Windsor without question - do not pass go, do not collect $200. 

[Ben]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:11 AM, beyondsection17 said:

The stigma against foreign law school graduates is not overhyped. It is very real. If you want to work in Canada you should go to Windsor without question - do not pass go, do not collect $200. 

Do you think this is true of T50 schools like W&M, UC Irvine, Iowa, etc? I'm a bit skeptical that the (obviously real) stigma applicable to certain schools in the UK and Australia really does apply to US schools like that. Maybe you have info I don't, but like @helloall suggested, I would be surprised if many people from those schools are trying to get jobs in Canada at all. 

With that said, i did start my answer above with "assuming you're genuinely unsure about whether you prefer living in the US or Canada long term," and I stand by that—obviously the easier track for working in Canada is going to school here. I just question whether the "very real" stigma against foreign law grads applies quite as broadly as you're suggesting. 

[WiseGhost]

I'm instinctively inclined to agree with @Ben. My understanding is that the UK and Australia stigma largely stems from their bottom-of-the-barrel admissions standards.

Of course, it would be easier to practice in Canada with a Windsor degree, but a full ride from a solid US school is nothing to scoff at -- especially if you'd consider working in the states. 

[Mal]

The US has bottom-of-the-barrel admissions standards at many schools too. It takes a fairly sophisticated understanding to be able to differentiate how good a school is once you aren't at something that is truly renowned. You should never expect someone else to research on your behalf, people are looking for solutions to their problems, not yours.