How much of a difference do coffee chats really make?

[ndjdjdjdj]

I was just wondering whether it's worth it to try to speak to as many people as possible when applying for articling positions, or if it really makes no difference. Does it really show additional demonstrated interest? 

[Turtles]

In the words of our student coordinator: it means zero. We aren't asked to share the names of people who reach out to us or otherwise pass anything on. The only time info would be shared would be if it was negative. If someone names a student or lawyer in their materials, it might prompt the student coordinator to ask the named person for thoughts at some point in the process, but then you run the risk that they don't know you or weren't particularly impressed.

It means a lot more in the context of the NYC recruit where you need people to pass around your materials on your behalf. Some Toronto big law firms may give it weight, but ours certainly doesn't. 

[dontmindme]

I would say it is worth it. It allows you to gain an idea of what a firm is like in one of few situations where you have control over the direction of the discussion. Best case scenario, you coffee chat with partner who takes a liking to you and is willing to advocate for you during OCI selection/call day. Worst case, you leave a very negative impression during a coffee chat with a student/associate/partner and they don't recommend you, or forget you entirely.

[Psychometronic]

In terms of benefit for the cost to your time, very minimal if at all. I would say it might make a bigger difference if your application demonstrates a strong interest in a practice area and you ask informed, thoughtful questions. If you’re casting a wide net with an application that doesn’t say much about what you’re interested in, coffee meetings won’t give you very much of a boost.

[t3ctonics]

I think the main benefit would be learning about the firm and the lawyer's practice. I don't think it would be helpful for getting an offer in the big formal articling recruit, largely because there are just so many qualified applicants and they are often considered largely interchangeable (note that this changes once you have meaningful experience). If you are looking outside the formal recruit - usually smaller firms or niche practice areas where a demonstration of specific interest is more important - it would be somewhat more likely to help, if, as @Psychometronic said, your application demonstrates a strong interest in the area and you are able to ask meaningful questions.

When I was at a large firm that participated in OCIs, associates were encouraged to participate in recruiting events year-round and to meet with interested students, and to send any thoughts to the recruitment committee. I met students for coffee every now and then and sent an email to the committee each time. I don't think any of that made much difference except in one negative case*, and the interview obviously held a lot more weight than an associate's comments. I doubt a coffee chat ever tipped the scales, because anything you could mention at coffee that would improve your chances could be mentioned in the interview anyways, and getting an interview was largely dependent on grades. 

*One student drank too much at a recruitment dinner event and started saying insulting and offensive things about other people to a couple of associates. Pro tip: be positive. Don't talk shit about anyone whether they (or anyone who likes them) can hear you or not.

[GoBigOrGoHome]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:04 PM, ndjdjdjdj said:

I was just wondering whether it's worth it to try to speak to as many people as possible when applying for articling positions, or if it really makes no difference. Does it really show additional demonstrated interest? 

At an event chatting with some associates they said that when it comes down to it, if a firm is choosing between candidates, you want someone who is going to vouch for you and say something along the lines that they met you and you seem like a decent person. They said that this matters less at the 7 sisters where grades will be a big focus, but at the large regionals, this will definitely matter. Here in Vancouver some large regionals pay as much as the 7 sisters so the "competition" will be equally as tough. 

It isn't about making as many connections as possible. It will get annoying to people if you reach out to multiple people across the same firm. Find something that you are curious about/interested in and find someone that may be able to talk about it. Eg. a practice area (whether it be something you know nothing about or you studied something related in undergrad), someone who was also a mature student, someone who has a similar background as you, their pro bono work, a case, etc. etc. etc. Make that connection meaningful. 

I haven't done a lot of the coffee/zoom chats, and according to this person, I should be doing more (I absolutely hate small talk), but in the short conversations I had with people, we had real things to talk about. I am not going in looking for a connection that can vouch for me. I am genuinely interested in what they have to say.