JD/JID students

[Megjackson]

I am starting the JD/JID program this fall. I didn't even apply for the JD program because I knew that if I went to UVIC I wanted to take the JID program. 

I noticed that there isn't alot of talk on here about the JID program.

Any current JID students want to share their experiences? How different is it compared to the JD program, especially the first year.  Are you satisfied with the JID program? Do you feel you're getting the same quality education as JD students that will allow you to work in any type of law or do you think you'll get pigeonholed into Indigenous law? 

 

I had a long day and I'm tired. My mind is fixating on this Fall so I have a bunch of questions 😆 

[TheDevilIKnow]

Hi Meg!

I don't actually know if we have any current JID students on here (part of the fun of anonymization). I just gradded from the JD, though, and my best friend at school is in the JID (about to start their final year), so I might be... better than nothing at answering questions...

You will take essentially the same number of courses over the four years, because one semester in each of your JID 3 and 4 years will be your field school placement.

Your first year will actually be the one that is the "most different", because almost all the required first-year courses have separate JID versions. In my year, the two exceptions - where the JIDs were in class with the rest of us - were Torts and "Law, Legislation, and Policy". But that's simplifying it a bit, because I think you actually take torts in second year, making room for some other stuff in JID1.

https://www.uvic.ca/law/jd/courseregistration/index.php is the page you are going to want to watch for your course schedules. Your first-year info is not entered yet, but you can see the schedules and timetables for the upper years of the program, which might help clarify what I'm rambling about.

During your upper years, you will see that you have a few specific JID courses to take (like Admin law), but mostly you will be taking courses with the rest of us. A nice bonus is that you get priority registration as a JID, avoiding the horrific upper-year course registration process that the JDs endure.

It's my understanding that the format of the "field school" placements is still evolving. Since the first two cohorts of the JID program have had their upper years more-or-less during Covid, I think that has reduced the "in person" aspects. I am not sure about the JID 4's from this last year, but the JID 3 placement was about 2 weeks "on site", with the rest of the term being preparing for the trip and then, I dunno, documenting what was done/learned? It's a lot more complicated than that, of course, I just know what it looked like from the outside. 😉

https://www.uvic.ca/law/assets/docs/2023-2024/2023-2024-course-planning-guide-jd-jid.pdf is the official document to help plan courses. It is not applicable to you going into first year, but might still be helpful to look in advance.

One disadvantage of the JID is that you can't enroll in the co-op program. I don't know why this is; you just can't. Possibly compensating for the fact that you already get a type of 'work placement' in your field schools, although that is a stress. This can be a bit of a downside... another JID student I know was quite disappointed that a summer co-op position was posted that was exactly what they wanted to do for their career, but couldn't apply because they were in the JID... even though this student had nothing else going on in the summer and no one else even applied to the job.

If you have any more specific question, and if no actual JIDs show up, I'd be happy to answer more. Better than studying PLTC stuff. 😉

[chilly]

There's just not many folks on here from UVic as we are mostly hippies living in the forest without internet connection who are busy growing microgreens and brewing kombucha... 🙂

In all seriousness, you might not hear much from many JD/JID folks on here because the cohort is quite small (I think 25 students?) While I'm also was not in the JID program, here's a little bit of info:

The JID program seems exciting and unique, with really tight-knit cohorts. Friends in both the 3L and 4L JID cohorts this year spoke highly of the field schools this year (and 2022-2023 was the first "normal" school year where we were fully in person).

I'd encourage you to reach out to the LSS to connect with some upper-year JIDs or recent grads to chat. There are many JID folks who are kind, lovely, and happy to talk about their experiences!

In terms of differences, there are some JID-specific restrictions to be aware of:

(1) As TheDevilIKnow pointed out, there's the co-op restriction. (Sometimes the co-op jobs that go unfilled end up being circulated among the rest of the school, so maybe... there is... some way?)

(2) I believe JID students also can't take summer classes.

(3) JID students can only participate in competitive moots in 2L because of 3/4L field school. (This applies even to moots like the Kawaskimhon, which is kind of ridiculous.)

The program is still fairly new, so the admin is still working things out. With that, you might run into some frustration. I recall that JID students last year ended up with a really heavy workload in one semester because of an admin mess-up... but I think that is more a reflection of UVic's current state, in general. (From an outsider's perspective, these types of inconvenices seem to add up but still be heavily outweighed by the program being uhhhh really awesome.)

Also, because things are still being worked out, the faculty might change its stance on JIDs in co-op, summer school, or 3/4L mooting. They recently changed their stance on the law journal, so now 3/4L JIDs can be on the UVic law journal's editorial board.

With regards to your question about being pigeonholed: I think, as with JD students, your opportunities largely depend on what you're interested in and apply to.

Most folks who apply and get into the JID have an interest in Aboriginal law and Indigenous laws, so a lot end up do working in that area. That said, I know JID folks who have worked/are working in full-service firms (including biglaw) and non-Indigenous governments. If you are interested in full-service/biglaw/DOJ, JIDs can participate in the 2L recruit (OCIs, etc.) in both 2L and 3L of the JID program (you'd still be a summer student during your 3L summer).

Again, the program is really new-- the first JID class graduated just last year. I encourage you to connect with a JID grad if you'd like to know more about these things.

One last thing to note: I think the NCIL will be complete by the time you graduate, so hooray for that! All the construction pain will be worth it... at least for you. 🙂

[GlenCocoLaw]

Hi Meg! I'm currently an applicant for the JID program 2024. I was wondering the same thing and have only had the opportunity to speak with a couple of people in the program. Since your fall semester has begun, I'm wondering how everything is going for you? Also, how was your search for housing? :)

[Auntyline]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:58 PM, Megjackson said:

I am starting the JD/JID program this fall. I didn't even apply for the JD program because I knew that if I went to UVIC I wanted to take the JID program. 

I noticed that there isn't alot of talk on here about the JID program.

Any current JID students want to share their experiences? How different is it compared to the JD program, especially the first year.  Are you satisfied with the JID program? Do you feel you're getting the same quality education as JD students that will allow you to work in any type of law or do you think you'll get pigeonholed into Indigenous law? 

 

I had a long day and I'm tired. My mind is fixating on this Fall so I have a bunch of questions 😆 

I know you probably don’t have these questions anymore but I just thought I’d share some insight as I’m sure other new or potential students might have these questions as well.

I am a JID grad from one of the first three cohorts.

My experience in 1L: your core classes are criminal law, property, constitutional, legal research and writing (LRW), and law, legislation and policy (I think - I can only remember the acronym being LLP right now). The first of those three are supposed to be transystemic but it seems to depend on the availability of professors who are qualified to teach transystemic. I know a few cohorts had to take constitutional with the main JD class after John Borrows left (which was honestly such a loss to the program).

LRW and LLP are with the rest of the 1L JDs. Those classes give you a good opportunity to get to know regular JDs, which becomes important in 2L and beyond when most of your courses will be with JD students.

In 2L, you take transystemic torts and contracts, as well as Coast Salish law. The rest of your courses are with the rest of the JDs.

You are also supposed to take transystemic administrative law and business associations. Both of those courses were taught by non-Indigenous professors and honestly, the content wasn’t really transystemic at all. 

For field school, the first cohort worked with Cowichan and a few other nations up island. The second cohort worked with a tribal council based in Kamloops and with other nations up island as well. The third cohort worked with a Dene nation in the NWT and then with Cowichan in their final year. The fourth cohort worked in the NWT and will be going to Ontario in the fall to join Osgoode’s Indigenous law field school. 

So far, the way it’s worked for most field semesters (I think) is that you do two weeks in class at the beginning of the semester, two weeks on-site with the nation, and then you return to Victoria and finish your projects there. 

I would say the quality of the JID education exceeds the regular program. You learn everything the JD students and more. You get to expand your world view and work with clients while you’re still in law school, which is so huge. The field school work was the highlight of my education.

In terms of articles and beyond, it kind of depends. There are two or three Aboriginal law firms in Victoria and not all of them take articling students every year. I really wanted to work in Aboriginal or Indigenous law but I ended up working wherever I could find something, which ended up being at a personal injury/civil litigation firm.

My experience when I was looking for articles was that most people still had no idea what the JID program was. Obviously this will change as time goes on and as more of us graduate and show them all how awesome we are 💃

One crappy thing about the program that people don’t like to talk about publicly is the amount of interpersonal drama that seems to occur in every single cohort. I don’t know what it is - perhaps the fact that you’re with the same 16-25 people every day, all day, in a challenging, competitive environment, talking about really traumatic things a lot of the time. But I know that at least 5 of the 6 cohorts have had issues with bullying. A few of them had to have mediations or similar “relationship rebuilding exercises” to address it, which were generally unsuccessful. If people are gonna be cruel and mean, that’s not going to change with one afternoon of meditation.

The administration and faculty often pick favourites too, which adds another element to the interpersonal tension. One thing I found extremely frustrating was that we would make suggestions to the powers that be about how the program could be improved, and it would always fall on deaf ears. You would think that with a program so new, they’d welcome constructive feedback from students but it was quite the opposite. I hope things change because the program is truly special and important, but there seems to be patterns that repeat themselves year after year. 
 

I hope this is helpful for someone.

 

[izzyg]

On 6/1/2024 at 12:10 AM, Auntyline said:

I know you probably don’t have these questions anymore but I just thought I’d share some insight as I’m sure other new or potential students might have these questions as well.

I am a JID grad from one of the first three cohorts.

My experience in 1L: your core classes are criminal law, property, constitutional, legal research and writing (LRW), and law, legislation and policy (I think - I can only remember the acronym being LLP right now). The first of those three are supposed to be transystemic but it seems to depend on the availability of professors who are qualified to teach transystemic. I know a few cohorts had to take constitutional with the main JD class after John Borrows left (which was honestly such a loss to the program).

LRW and LLP are with the rest of the 1L JDs. Those classes give you a good opportunity to get to know regular JDs, which becomes important in 2L and beyond when most of your courses will be with JD students.

In 2L, you take transystemic torts and contracts, as well as Coast Salish law. The rest of your courses are with the rest of the JDs.

You are also supposed to take transystemic administrative law and business associations. Both of those courses were taught by non-Indigenous professors and honestly, the content wasn’t really transystemic at all. 

For field school, the first cohort worked with Cowichan and a few other nations up island. The second cohort worked with a tribal council based in Kamloops and with other nations up island as well. The third cohort worked with a Dene nation in the NWT and then with Cowichan in their final year. The fourth cohort worked in the NWT and will be going to Ontario in the fall to join Osgoode’s Indigenous law field school. 

So far, the way it’s worked for most field semesters (I think) is that you do two weeks in class at the beginning of the semester, two weeks on-site with the nation, and then you return to Victoria and finish your projects there. 

I would say the quality of the JID education exceeds the regular program. You learn everything the JD students and more. You get to expand your world view and work with clients while you’re still in law school, which is so huge. The field school work was the highlight of my education.

In terms of articles and beyond, it kind of depends. There are two or three Aboriginal law firms in Victoria and not all of them take articling students every year. I really wanted to work in Aboriginal or Indigenous law but I ended up working wherever I could find something, which ended up being at a personal injury/civil litigation firm.

My experience when I was looking for articles was that most people still had no idea what the JID program was. Obviously this will change as time goes on and as more of us graduate and show them all how awesome we are 💃

One crappy thing about the program that people don’t like to talk about publicly is the amount of interpersonal drama that seems to occur in every single cohort. I don’t know what it is - perhaps the fact that you’re with the same 16-25 people every day, all day, in a challenging, competitive environment, talking about really traumatic things a lot of the time. But I know that at least 5 of the 6 cohorts have had issues with bullying. A few of them had to have mediations or similar “relationship rebuilding exercises” to address it, which were generally unsuccessful. If people are gonna be cruel and mean, that’s not going to change with one afternoon of meditation.

The administration and faculty often pick favourites too, which adds another element to the interpersonal tension. One thing I found extremely frustrating was that we would make suggestions to the powers that be about how the program could be improved, and it would always fall on deaf ears. You would think that with a program so new, they’d welcome constructive feedback from students but it was quite the opposite. I hope things change because the program is truly special and important, but there seems to be patterns that repeat themselves year after year. 
 

I hope this is helpful for someone.

 

Hello!!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with the program! I was just admitted to the jid program for fall 2025 and I found this super helpful! If you're open to it, I would love to connect sometime to pick your brain some more about the program and life after law school. Miigwetch 🙂