Articling position withdrawn / Articling salaries / Next steps

[OhPlease]

Hi there!

I'm an internationally trained lawyer who has recently moved to Canada and completed the NCA requirements. I work for a renowned multinational company that I wasn't planning on leaving anytime soon, as I really enjoy working there, and I see they value what I bring to the table. I don't have an excellent salary ($130k yearly + 20% bonus + lots of benefits such as stock options, 150-200% match RRSP, great insurance, etc.), but I'm on my way to improving it, I have much room to grown and an outstanding work-life balance.

The problem is, at the time of the job offer, the company promised me the articling position when I was ready to start it, and now that I am, the lawyer who was supposed to be my principal backed down. This is unrelated to me; the person doesn't even know me. They don't do articling there; they were doing it as a "courtesy", and because of politics, my department doesn't want to get into this fight with the Legal Department.

I'm highly disappointed for several reasons and can barely believe in a situation like this; however, I prefer do not get into it, as the purpose of my post is to ask for opinions about my possible next steps. I never even looked for an articling position, as I had one guaranteed. Now, I lost all the formal process deadlines, and my licensing process will be delayed by at least one year.

I can request the LSO for Abridgement, but as I'm from a Civil Law jurisdiction, I will still have to fulfill 1-2 months of articling.

In addition to that it concerns me the possibility of leaving a good permament job at a great company (in the legal field - although I don't need to be licensed for that) for an articling position that will pay less than my current earnings (as far as I know) with the possibility of not being hired back at the end.

What would you do if you were on my shoes? 

I'm in the legal field for 15 years and have experience in M&A, Contracts, Compliance, IP and Privacy in multinational companies and law offices. 

Qatlho - "Thank you", in  Klingon! 🙂 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by OhPlease

[GoBigOrGoHome]

If you can get the abridgment, have you considered a leave of absence? Pair your vacation with a approved leave of absence to article and then come back? 
 

You can always quit your job permanently if articling turns into permanent employment. 
 

Just be mindful of conflicts.

I don’t think it would be wise to leave a permanent job at your salary in this economy forever. If you have a supportive supervisor, find a way to make it happen through an extended vacation in slow months. Eg. December/January.

 

You would need to network your ass off for this, and perhaps even do unpaid articling. A principal would be doing you a favor - but it would get you licensed. 

[CleanHands]

2 hours ago, OhPlease said:

I don't have an excellent salary ($130k yearly + 20% bonus + lots of benefits such as stock options, 150-200% match RRSP, great insurance, etc.), but I'm on my way to improving it

That's like a 97th percentile income (not even counting the bonus, let alone the benefits and such), FYI...

Edited September 7, 2023 by CleanHands

[LMP]

To follow-up on the above comment, really think hard about what the oppertunity cost of this jump is gonna be.

You're going from $130k, the starting salary of a biglaw associate to a big question mark. And frankly given the type of articling position you may have to take, I'd be pessimistic as to what a legal role is going to pay you even after you are called.

Now if the intent is to return to this corporation that you currently work at, I can understand. But given that they've already shafted you once that too is a worrying prospect from my perspective.

[Ryn]

14 hours ago, OhPlease said:

In addition to that it concerns me the possibility of leaving a good permament job at a great company (in the legal field - although I don't need to be licensed for that) for an articling position that will pay less than my current earnings (as far as I know) with the possibility of not being hired back at the end.

I concur with others in respect of your earning opportunity at your current company. At least for now. If you intend on working in biglaw and actually end up as an associate at such a firm, then your salary will of course increase. But those are a lot of ifs that I, frankly, wouldn't put my money on unless you are very prepared to take risks. Including not getting such a job at all and ending up taking a massive salary cut in the short or medium term.

Setting that aside for a moment, if your company is open to a leave of absence so you can fulfill your articling requirements, that might be a good compromise. You'd have a job to return to, and I presume you can take a pay cut for a short period of time to finish articling. A lot of large companies offer similar packages for people in certain positions to upgrade their credentials generally (e.g., getting an MBA), so it's not an unusual ask.

While I won't go into legal advice territory, I will add that if they agree, I would of course get the deal in writing.

[OhPlease]

13 hours ago, GoBigOrGoHome said:

If you can get the abridgment, have you considered a leave of absence? Pair your vacation with a approved leave of absence to article and then come back? 
 

You can always quit your job permanently if articling turns into permanent employment. 
 

Just be mindful of conflicts.

I don’t think it would be wise to leave a permanent job at your salary in this economy forever. If you have a supportive supervisor, find a way to make it happen through an extended vacation in slow months. Eg. December/January.

 

You would need to network your ass off for this, and perhaps even do unpaid articling. A principal would be doing you a favor - but it would get you licensed.

Hey! That's actually my first choice too. Although it stings my pride to consider an alternative instead of leaving the company, sometimes you have to prioritize putting food on the table, right? Income is crucial for me right now. The good news is that I have two lawyers I previously worked for who are willing to serve as my principals. I'm not entirely certain about the new rules regarding articling for free, so I'll need to reach out to the LSO to confirm that. Thank you for sharing your thoughts; it's reassuring to know that others would consider this option as well.

[OhPlease]

11 hours ago, CleanHands said:

That's like a 97th percentile income (not even counting the bonus, let alone the benefits and such), 

Thank you for sharing this perspective. I often hear that the big money is in law firms. However, despite working tirelessly as an in-house professional, I believe the work-life balance is generally better for in-house roles. I've already had my share of non-stop work and constant travel for mergers and negotiations in the past. Now that I have a family to take care of, I don't feel I have much of a choice. It's reassuring to know that it doesn't necessarily mean I'll be significantly behind in terms of salary.

Edited September 7, 2023 by OhPlease

[OhPlease]

1 hour ago, LMP said:

To follow-up on the above comment, really think hard about what the oppertunity cost of this jump is gonna be.

You're going from $130k, the starting salary of a biglaw associate to a big question mark. And frankly given the type of articling position you may have to take, I'd be pessimistic as to what a legal role is going to pay you even after you are called.

Now if the intent is to return to this corporation that you currently work at, I can understand. But given that they've already shafted you once that too is a worrying prospect from my perspective.

Looks like I’m caught between a rock and a hard place. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Praying everyday so I don’t have bad feelings for the lazy lawyer who forgot what articling means. 

Thank you for your input!

[OhPlease]

1 hour ago, Ryn said:

I concur with others in respect of your earning opportunity at your current company. At least for now. If you intend on working in biglaw and actually end up as an associate at such a firm, then your salary will of course increase. But those are a lot of ifs that I, frankly, wouldn't put my money on unless you are very prepared to take risks. Including not getting such a job at all and ending up taking a massive salary cut in the short or medium term.

Setting that aside for a moment, if your company is open to a leave of absence so you can fulfill your articling requirements, that might be a good compromise. You'd have a job to return to, and I presume you can take a pay cut for a short period of time to finish articling. A lot of large companies offer similar packages for people in certain positions to upgrade their credentials generally (e.g., getting an MBA), so it's not an unusual ask.

While I won't go into legal advice territory, I will add that if they agree, I would of course get the deal in writing.

Hi there! Yes… Unfortunately, I don’t have the means to take the risk. I wish I could! 
I feel confident that if I had the opportunity to show my experience in a good law office and they had an opening, I would be considered, because I do have a considerable baggage that it’s often welcomed. However, what if there isn’t an opening? I can’t risk that, unfortunately. 
 

The company does offer different leaves of absence and given the circumstances I believe the head of the dept would be open to that as well. Depending on how much “abridgement” I get, I could do this using my vacation, as I have 25 days per year plus a few sick days that I can add to that. At least I would have a salary, although I wouldn’t have any rest! 🫠

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[happydude]

Unless you were a huge name abroad that people will know, or coming from a huge firm such that people will rightly or wrongly assume you to be of high caliber, I would consider that compensation package very fair for someone that just arrived in Canada from a civil law jurisdiction. Unless you are in QC, the employer is taking a chance on you not only coming from abroad but moving to a common law jurisdiction. I know you are 15 years out, but your all in compensation package is still over 200k. That seems fair to me considering the circumstances. You can always re-negotiate once you build a good reputation and brand for yourself in Canada in the legal community and some goodwill/trusted work product with your employer. Depending on the size of the company, many in-house counsel will never make much over 200K unless they move into managerial roles, Assistant General Counsel roles or higher, etc.

Edited October 24, 2023 by happydude