Difficult articling environment - looking for context & advice

[sherbrooke333]

Hello! I started articling a month ago, and I'm finding the work environment less than welcoming & conducive to professional growth. I'm thinking of bringing it up with my articling principal or with the student coordinators, but I was hoping to get a little more context on what an articling experience "should be", in case the problem is me and my expectations. There are other articling students where I'm at, but none on my team, so I'm reaching out here. I'll also add that I'm not trying to complain - I know I'm lucky to have found an articling position, and that other articling students have definitely dealt with much more difficult situations. 

The main issue is that no one at the office ever talks to me. I don't really know how to describe it, except that when I go into the office, I'll spend the whole day at my cubicle without anyone coming by to say anything, no emails, etc. Everyone was nice enough when I first started, but no one has ever reached out to suggest a coffee chat or something of the sort. There are no social events. I also haven't been put on many files, so even in work-related matters, my contact with lawyers has been limited. It's been a month and I've had three relatively small assignments. I have reached out to the lawyers I've met to indicate that I am available to help with anything.  My articling principal is nice, but he never reaches out and doesn't seem concerned about my progress.

The result of all of this is that I am isolated and uncomfortable at work (basically feel like I'm an interloper), and learning nothing on top of it all. I'm in government (litigation currently), and part of my thinking is that since it's gov, no one is invested in me the way they would be in a firm setting (I have no idea if this is right or not). In any case, I have two months left on this rotation, and I'd really like to do my best to turn things around. Like I said above, I'd really appreciate it if anyone could confirm that this isn't normal, or if you could share some advice. TIA!

Edited September 20, 2023 by sherbrooke333
extra context

[CleanHands]

This is a pretty normal government articling experience, for a few reasons:

1) Government articling positions are based more on budgets than as a response to actual internal labour demands. So it's not unusual for a government office to be able to hire articling students they don't strictly need.

2) Assigning work to a student is not effortless. In fact, it often will be more work for a lawyer to find a discreet task that a student could be of assistance on, check the student's workload, and provide instructions, explanations, supervision and feedback, than just doing the work themselves.

3) The lawyers are likely all busy with their own matters of import and finding make-work projects for an articling student is a relatively low priority. This is intertwined with point #2.

As long as you're getting positive feedback on the assignments you do get...respectfully I don't think this is a huge problem. As much as I'm sure you're keen to sink your teeth into work and learn things, which is great. You're already doing the right thing by making it clear you are available and open and interested in taking on more work. I'd keep doing that but wouldn't rock the boat over this. If you have down time there is always case law to read and various professional development resources so you can be proactive and still use the opportunity to learn.

Edited September 20, 2023 by CleanHands

[LMP]

36 minutes ago, sherbrooke333 said:

Hello! I started articling a month ago, and I'm finding the work environment less than welcoming & conducive to professional growth. I'm thinking of bringing it up with my articling principal or with the student coordinators, but I was hoping to get a little more context on what an articling experience "should be", in case the problem is me and my expectations. There are other articling students where I'm at, but none on my team, so I'm reaching out here. I'll also add that I'm not trying to complain - I know I'm lucky to have found an articling position, and that other articling students have definitely dealt with much more difficult situations. 

The main issue is that no one at the office ever talks to me. I don't really know how to describe it, except that when I go into the office, I'll spend the whole day at my cubicle without anyone coming by to say anything, no emails, etc. Everyone was nice enough when I first started, but no one has ever reached out to suggest a coffee chat or something of the sort. There are no social events. I also haven't been put on many files, so even in work-related matters, my contact with lawyers has been limited. It's been a month and I've had three relatively small assignments. I have reached out to the lawyers I've met to indicate that I am available to help with anything.  My articling principal is nice, but he never reaches out and doesn't seem concerned about my progress.

The result of all of this is that I am isolated and uncomfortable at work (basically feel like I'm an interloper), and learning nothing on top of it all. I'm in government (litigation currently), and part of my thinking is that since it's gov, no one is invested in me the way they would be in a firm setting (I have no idea if this is right or not). In any case, I have two months left on this rotation, and I'd really like to do my best to turn things around. Like I said above, I'd really appreciate it if anyone could confirm that this isn't normal, or if you could share some advice. TIA!

I haven't worked for government in a legal role but I've worked at both levels of government before law school and I completely understand what you are feeling. It isn't fun! I definitely felt like I was counting down the days sometimes. 

I think your focus right now should be on keeping your spirits up. Things like goal setting, positive self talk and visualization tend to help. You're in a position where work will come when it comes. Why not position yourself such that you are in the best possible headspace when it arrives? 

 

[sherbrooke333]

37 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

This is a pretty normal government articling experience, for a few reasons:

1) Government articling positions are based more on budgets than as a response to actual internal labour demands. So it's not unusual for a government office to be able to hire articling students they don't strictly need.

2) Assigning work to a student is not effortless. In fact, it often will be more work for a lawyer to find a discreet task that a student could be of assistance on, check the student's workload, and provide instructions, explanations, supervision and feedback, than just doing the work themselves.

3) The lawyers are likely all busy with their own matters of import and finding make-work projects for an articling student is a relatively low priority. This is intertwined with point #2.

As long as you're getting positive feedback on the assignments you do get...respectfully I don't think this is a huge problem. As much as I'm sure you're keen to sink your teeth into work and learn things, which is great. You're already doing the right thing by making it clear you are available and open and interested in taking on more work. I'd keep doing that but wouldn't rock the boat over this. If you have down time there is always case law to read and various professional development resources so you can be proactive and still use the opportunity to learn.

Thank you, this is all really helpful! I'd definitely say that the part I have the most difficulty with is the cold social environment (I've worked in a few places and never had an experience close to like this), but I'll do as you suggest and try not to stress out over it too much.

[CleanHands]

15 minutes ago, sherbrooke333 said:

I'd definitely say that the part I have the most difficulty with is the cold social environment

I doubt that has anything to do with you; this is also not uncommonly a government office environment thing. lol

No worries; glad I could be of some use!

[StephenToast]

Since you're in litigation, have you tried asking counsels if you can tag along and watch their court appearances? It's minimal effort on their part to have you around and it might give you opportunity to connect and interact with people. I summered in government, albeit in criminal law, and that's what I did whenever I found time on my hands.

 

[Psychometronic]

I suggest being more proactive with reaching out to others rather than wait for them to come to you: 

• knock on some doors (if people are in office) and try to get work that way
• ask to join in on discoveries, court appearances, client calls etc
• offer to take notes
• chat with relatively junior counsel to see what you can glean from them and seek advice on how to make more of your time articling
• try to interact with people during breaks or lunch 
• if you're given a task, see if you can get more work on the file later on 
• where you able, ask about the files the lawyers are working on and if something interests you, ask if you can assist 
• touch base with your articling principal (face to face if possible) and tell them know you have capacity to take on more work (if this the case)

[acatinthesun]

I articled in a gov office and one of the biggest perks of gov office life is low social interaction.  You are experiencing a very normal gov articling journey and I would encourage you to embrace it. If you are low on work, of course ask around, but there simply may not be much work for you. 

[Phaedrus]

I've worked in government (policy/research) and your experience sounds par for the course. It's cold, there's some banter but not a lot, and HR has a cringey staff pizza event every few months. 

I articled for a small shop, during covid, and worked remotely for a large portion of it. I had little contact with the lawyers beyond task assignment. It was challenging to even get clarification when it was needed. When I worked in office, I had a tiny room to work in and I'd regularly spend the day not talking to anyone. It sucked, but it also allowed me get deep work done. Articling can be lonesome and isolating in these circumstances, so it's important to keep your eye on the ball. Like others have said above, it's a finite period of time and there are ways to interact more and dig into files. 

More generally, articling seems to be an experience designed to be miserable. Long hours, high stress, competing priorities, low autonomy, reduced social interactions, etc. I've never met someone who said their articling was incredible and fun. It's a slog and everyone knows it. However, the common experience bonds colleagues and peers, and everyone has something to bitch and vent about just to release some steam. Articling is a chance to figure out what you like and don't like, what practice areas are better suited to your personality and interests. Take some time to reflect on the work, the environment, and start turning your mind to what/where you want to practice after you're called. 

[Law123456789]

 "Often will be more work for a lawyer to find a discreet task that a student could be of assistance on, check the student's workload, and provide instructions, explanations, supervision and feedback, than just doing the work themselves". My firm assigns me many tasks but fails to do any of the above. 

[123]

18 hours ago, CleanHands said:

I doubt that has anything to do with you; this is also not uncommonly a government office environment thing.

Even more generally, a therapist once told me that most people's behaviour has more to do with them than you. There's probably an exception for people who have personality disorders, but I do generally think that's true.

45 minutes ago, Phaedrus said:

I've never met someone who said their articling was incredible and fun.

I did actually have a pretty good articling experience. It was stressful sometimes, but my principal and (most of) my other supervisors were really nice. I was luckier than most, I think.

[Law123456789]

19 hours ago, CleanHands said:

This is a pretty normal government articling experience, for a few reasons:

1) Government articling positions are based more on budgets than as a response to actual internal labour demands. So it's not unusual for a government office to be able to hire articling students they don't strictly need.

2) Assigning work to a student is not effortless. In fact, it often will be more work for a lawyer to find a discreet task that a student could be of assistance on, check the student's workload, and provide instructions, explanations, supervision and feedback, than just doing the work themselves.

3) The lawyers are likely all busy with their own matters of import and finding make-work projects for an articling student is a relatively low priority. This is intertwined with point #2.

As long as you're getting positive feedback on the assignments you do get...respectfully I don't think this is a huge problem. As much as I'm sure you're keen to sink your teeth into work and learn things, which is great. You're already doing the right thing by making it clear you are available and open and interested in taking on more work. I'd keep doing that but wouldn't rock the boat over this. If you have down time there is always case law to read and various professional development resources so you can be proactive and still use the opportunity to learn.

sadly my firm assigns us the articling students many tasks but fails to do any of the above. 

 

[PzabbytheLawyer]

On 9/21/2023 at 2:02 PM, realpseudonym said:

Even more generally, a therapist once told me that most people's behaviour has more to do with them than you. There's probably an exception for people who have personality disorders, but I do generally think that's true.

I did actually have a pretty good articling experience. It was stressful sometimes, but my principal and (most of) my other supervisors were really nice. I was luckier than most, I think.

Likewise. I loved my articling.

[SNAILS]

It seems that your concerned about two things:

1. People not paying attention to you socially
2. People not paying attention to your work and training

To solve #1, I'd say you need to make more effort to say "hi" to other people and you'll be more socially included in a few months. To solve #2, try emailing specific people with specific questions. Don't just send a documents and ask "is this fine"?

My impression (from summering and from the experience of another articling student we have) is that what was described by the OP is normal.