Academic references

[The Law]

I am a good student. A or A- in every class through 3 years, but I have established 0 connections with professors. Is this important for me to do in my final year? How would I go about doing this? I don't really need help with my classes, so what would I even talk about with a professor who is waiting to talk to other students who do have questions?

Just now, The Law said:

I am a good student. A or A- in every class through 3 years, but I have established 0 connections with professors. Is this important for me to do in my final year? How would I go about doing this? I don't really need help with my classes, so what would I even talk about with a professor who is waiting to talk to other students who do have questions?

This is in undergrad, wanting to know if references are important for my law school application

[CleanHands]

Super common to not really have an established relationship with a professor when asking for an academic reference. Most still feel good about helping out.

[tobi]

What I did was go to office hours. For example, even if I didn't need help on a paper/final exam, I'd go to the office hours just to chat about it and ask for further advice because they'd be the one grading it. I'd ask about what to avoid or what to focus on more. I'd ask if I'm going about the paper the right way and then I'd feel more confident about writing the paper and then I'd also get to connect with them.

Asking for feedback about your graded papers/assignments would be good too. Ask where you can improve. Ask what you should look out for/what you should do if you were to pursue this line of research for a Master's degree/further education - this kind of plants the idea in their head that this is your plan after university. 

Then, if there's a professor where you liked their class, you could**** (could ask them if you want, since people are being critical) ask them if they have any job opportunities for you - like TAing for them or maybe they have any research opportunities that you can apply for. 

But the first thing you have to do is: talk to them and it may be easiest to talk to them in office hours.

Edited October 6, 2023 by tobi

[CleanHands]

6 minutes ago, tobi said:

What I did was go to office hours. For example, even if I didn't need help on a paper/final exam, I'd go to the office hours just to chat about it and ask for further advice because they'd be the one grading it. I'd ask about what to avoid or what to focus on more. I'd ask if I'm going about the paper the right way and then I'd feel more confident about writing the paper and then I'd also get to connect with them.

Asking for feedback about your graded papers/assignments would be good too. Ask where you can improve. Ask what you should look out for/what you should do if you were to pursue this line of research for a Master's degree/further education - this kind of plants the idea in their head that this is your plan after university. 

Then, if there's a professor where you liked their class, you should ask them if they have any job opportunities for you - like TAing for them or maybe they have any research opportunities that you can apply for. 

But the first thing you have to do is: talk to them and it may be easiest to talk to them in office hours.

While we're swapping anecdotes, I hadn't said a word outside of class to any of my professors that I eventually received academic references for law school from (although I received As in my courses with them) and each and every one of them was delighted to provide a reference when I reached out. All I did was tell them what class I took with them and when, and (truthfully) told them I enjoyed their classes.

The idea that you should be going to office hours, asking for feedback on everything, asking for academic/career advice, and even applying for jobs with them, in order to ensure you have references, is utterly ludicrous. Being able to provide references is one of the favorite parts of the job for most profs and they aren't going to say "no" to everyone who isn't their BFF.

Edited October 6, 2023 by CleanHands

[tobi]

4 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

While we're swapping anecdotes, I hadn't said a word to any of my professors that I eventually received academic references for law school from (although I received As in my courses with them) and each and every one of them was delighted to provide a reference when I reached out. All I did was tell them what class I took with them and when, and (truthfully) told them I enjoyed their classes.

The idea that you should be going to office hours, asking for feedback on everything, asking for academic/career advice, and even applying for jobs with them, in order to ensure you have references, is utterly ludicrous. Being able to provide references is one of the favorite parts of the job for most profs and they aren't going to say "no" to everyone who isn't their BFF.

They are asking for what they can talk about with a professor who is waiting to talk to other students. They can talk about all that. Oh, and my bad, I see where I made my mistake - it was supposed to be you could** talk to them if they have any job opportunities, and if they want to ask about that, just a mistake. I'm just suggesting too, no need to call it ludicrous. 🙂

Oh edit to add too: My final years in uni was mostly virtual. I definitely had to do that (go to their virtual office hours, chat with them), so that they could remember me when I reached out (now) for academic references.

Edited October 6, 2023 by tobi

[CleanHands]

2 minutes ago, tobi said:

They are asking for what they can talk about with a professor who is waiting to talk to other students. They can talk about all that. Oh, and my bad, I see where I made my mistake - it was supposed to be you could** talk to them if they have any job opportunities, just a mistake. I'm just suggesting too, no need to call it ludicrous. 🙂

Well no, their first question was "Is this important for me to do in my final year?" And the answer is a resounding "no."

You're trying to be helpful, but you're feeding into classic law applicant neurosis and encouraging other applicants to overthink and stress about something that doesn't matter, that requires no thought or effort, and that nobody needs to stress about.

[Naj]

36 minutes ago, The Law said:

This is in undergrad, wanting to know if references are important for my law school application

Important? I believe almost all schools in Ontario strongly encourage at least 1 academic reference. Beyond that, it's relatively unimportant. I know some professors don't appreciate being asked to write recommendations for people who have never bothered to even minimally participate during class, but that just depends on the professor. If you're not participating then maybe you should bother to have a conversation or two after class with the professor, just talk about the lecture or something man, you're a straight-A student, figure it out.