Dilemma: ITC vs offer

[Beaver]

Simplifying this dilemma as much as possible but, what would you do if you had to choose between a job offer from x (a large international firm, but for an office outside toronto in a city where you currently reside) VERSUS continuing the OCI process with an in firm at mccarthys. Conflicting timelines (x requires an answer before in-firms even begin). NO other in-firm offers. Salary difference of course. 

[aurora borealis]

How much do you like the other city?

To actually answer the question I would probably take the job offer.

[Beaver]

I like the other city very much. The factors I'm less clear on are financial/salary and excellence of the firm (which i would think translates to more opportunities for growth/learning). Thank you for your insight!

Edited October 22, 2023 by Beaver

[BeRightBack]

Assess your risk-taking appetite, how strong your profile is, how confident you are about yourself, how rich your parents are, how good your networking is and what is your backup, if McCarthy doesn't fructify? Since McCarthy accepted you for in-firm, I would argue you do have something special. On the other hand, why not take the offer now and change the city after a couple of years, like everyone else? The way I see it, you cannot go wrong with either of the choice. 

[Beaver]

28 minutes ago, ProBoner said:

Assess your risk-taking appetite, how strong your profile is, how confident you are about yourself, how rich your parents are, how good your networking is and what is your backup, if McCarthy doesn't fructify? Since McCarthy accepted you for in-firm, I would argue you do have something special. On the other hand, why not take the offer now and change the city after a couple of years, like everyone else? The way I see it, you cannot go wrong with either of the choice. 

All very helpful points thank you. I question the “change in a couple of years” part. Do you think this is really that easy? I perceive it to be very difficult if you're not already on bay street. Could be wrong ofcourse.

[Luigi22]

Considering it's a large international firm, it may be possible to transfer cities eventually. I know many who have transferred between cities with the same firm. Of course, that isn't a guaranteed but something to consider as a possability. 

[Lawstudent234]

Have you received an ITC from McCarthys? If not, I'd recommend accepting the guaranteed offer.

[LMP]

The term "large international firm" isn't inherently helpful. There are very big differences between firms like Norton Rose and Baker Mackenzie as compared to Clyde and Co or DS. 

 

[Beaver]

35 minutes ago, Lawstudent234 said:

Have you received an ITC from McCarthys? If not, I'd recommend accepting the guaranteed offer.

Yes. Does the ITC change your opinion?

31 minutes ago, LMP said:

The term "large international firm" isn't inherently helpful. There are very big differences between firms like Norton Rose and Baker Mackenzie as compared to Clyde and Co or DS. 

 

More like Norton Rose. Canadian lawyer mag and wikipedia have ranked the firm in top 5 i think based on revenue (not that this matters that much but just for context). 

[Lawstudent234]

I would say the ITC makes the decision slightly more difficult. However, I would still take the offer because the in firm is not a guarantee. 

[Dnian]

In 2022, McCarthy offered 72 in firm interviews and hired 26 of those people. In other words, 36% of accepted ITCs translate into an accepted offer. 

Of the other people who were selected for an in-firm but did not receive an offer, a significant chunk of those may have simultaneously been interviewing with other similar firms -- and only "did not advance" or did not accept the offer because they were more interested in another firm (like Blakes, Osler, Torys, etc). Factoring all that together, I think it's fair to say you have just under a 50/50 shot.  

Not saying this should change your decision, but it is something to think about as well. If you're going to turn down the ITC due to risk, good to know the odds in terms of actual data.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Dnian
correction of wrong number

[Dinsdale]

18 hours ago, Dnian said:

In 2022, McCarthy offered 72 in firm interviews and hired 26 of those people. In other words, 36% of accepted ITCs translate into an accepted offer. 

Of the other people who were selected for an in-firm but did not receive an offer, a significant chunk of those may have simultaneously been interviewing with other similar firms -- and only "did not advance" or did not accept the offer because they were more interested in another firm (like Blakes, Osler, Torys, etc). Factoring all that together, I think it's fair to say you have just under a 50/50 shot.  

Not saying this should change your decision, but it is something to think about as well. If you're going to turn down the ITC due to risk, good to know the odds in terms of actual data.

This is right on point.  Those are your odds if you gamble on the McCarthy's interview.  How is your transcript?  Are you at the top of their interview class, or more at the middle or bottom?  What law school do you attend?  Those factors will affect your chances significantly.

[CTOlaw]

37 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

This is right on point.  Those are your odds if you gamble on the McCarthy's interview.  How is your transcript?  Are you at the top of their interview class, or more at the middle or bottom?  What law school do you attend?  Those factors will affect your chances significantly.

Grades matter even at the in-firm stage?

[chaboywb]

I had to make a similar decision as a 2L but with 6 in firms. I went with the in firms and got one offer. So, while I'm happy I did so, it could have easily been a major regret. In your shoes, I'd take the bird in hand.

[Beaver]

Thanks all for your insight. I took the bird in hand and am glad I did! Appreciate the help.

[LMP]

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll have a great summer.