Canadian or US school?

[gnarlsbarkle]

I'm currently applying to law schools and I've begun to consider US schools as well. I'm an American citizen (Canadian PR) and am interested in eventually living in the US . It seems most states don't recognize non-ABA approved schools, so it feels like it would be difficult with a Canadian degree to get a job there.

However, I keep hearing that the legal field is over-saturated in the US and you need to graduate from a top school or have strong connections to find work. What school ranking would make attending a US school worth it compared to a Canadian school? Is the Canadian legal field also over-saturated?

If it helps, I'm fine with and would actually prefer living in a more rural area rather than a big city, which I've heard might help with finding work.

Edited November 10, 2023 by gnarlsbarkle

[StoneMason]

Generally speaking, it is not ideal to attend a Canadian school with the intention of moving to the US market. Don't get me wrong – there are plenty of Canadian-educated lawyers in the US, but those are the exception and not the rule. From what I know, only UofT has a formal pipeline into the states but even that isn't a guarantee (roughly 30-40 land a US gig in a class of 200, granted not all apply). If you attend one of the other schools, you'll likely have to work in Canada for a few years with the hopes of lateraling over but even that is not a guarantee. A lot of folks did successfully do this during the COVID surge but that option has slowed down significantly. 

But at the end of the day, I'd say apply everywhere you have a realistic shot at acceptance once your stats are finalized. It's always better to say no to an offer in hand than to not even apply and regret it later. 

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

I was in the same boat as you not too long ago, and what ultimately dissuaded me from applying to U.S. schools was the price. I am a dual citizen, and I have worked in the Canadian legal field for some time now, and feel more comfortable with Canadian tort law and civil procedure, so it makes intuitive sense for me to stay here (among other things). 

I'll preface this post with a disclaimer: I can only speak on my own research on the matter, and I am sure there are far more knowledgeable people on this forum that can give you better insight than I am about to offer. 

School rankings in the U.S. do matter more, and you're correct in stating that that U.S. legal field is over-saturated relative to Canada. To the best of my knowledge, this issue isn't as serious in the Canadian legal market since it is more regulated and on average more competitive, but it should be noted that mid and big law lawyers in the U.S. generally get paid more than Canadian lawyers. 

As it pertains to the reputability of the school, you have great stats to get into a T-30 school with a scholarship. I would further argue that the T-30s are fine in terms of regional employment outcomes - you will not struggle too hard finding good employment within this bracket of schools. However, if you're gunning for New York Big Law, your chances would be higher if you secure admission to one of the T16/T14 schools (I say T16, since Vanderbilt is no. 15/16 now, and their employment outcomes are decent for NY big law). 

If your goal is to ultimately end up in the U.S., your best options w/in Canada are U of T, Oz and UBC, the first of which has decent (top 15% of class) placement in NY while the latter two have mediocre placement in NY law. I cannot comment on McGill because I haven't had a chance to look at their employment stats, but I am sure they're commensurate with U of T's. Otherwise, I'd recommend applying to U.S. schools, as most U.S. employers won't recognize the name of Canadian schools outside of U of T and McGill. 

Hope this helps. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by BurnerQuestion123

[StoneMason]

15 minutes ago, BurnerQuestion123 said:

If your goal is to ultimately end up in the U.S., your best options w/in Canada are U of T, Oz and UBC, the first of which has decent (top 15% of class) placement in NY while the latter two have mediocre placement in NY law. 

I will say this stat can be a bit misleading. While 15-20% of the class does land NY, it isn't necessarily that these are the top 15-20% of the class. There are plenty of students who land NY that are middle of the pack (in terms of grades). 

Making distinction (top 10%) almost guarantees a NY offer from a V10 firm, but not making it does not take you out of the running (especially for V30, but even for a few V10 firms). 

Edited November 10, 2023 by StoneMason

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

28 minutes ago, StoneMason said:

While 15-20% of the class does land NY, it isn't necessarily that these are the top 15-20% of the class.

Yes indeed, my apologies - I wrote the original post in haste. I meant to say 15-20% of the class places. 

[gnarlsbarkle]

Wow, thanks to both of you! These are very helpful explanations and make me feel a lot better about the choice.

Since I'm really keen on living in the States, I think I'll be applying to a handful of schools in the T20-T40 range and see what happens! If you're right about the possibility of scholarships, that would definitely help a lot with the considerable hike in tuition fees.

Thanks for all your help again!

[Dinsdale]

I have no experience recruiting for the U.S. market, but I'd just like to add that the converse is true too, i.e. if you end up at a U.S. law school, that will significantly diminish (but not eliminate) your chances of working in Canada.  If your degree is from the U.S. and you want to work in Canada, you must go the NCA route, which I'm sure you can read about in greater detail elsewhere if you are interested.  Suffice to say it is not at all in-sync with the various Canadian recruiting periods for students.  As for Canada having more regulation / higher barriers to entry and therefore less over-saturation, I agree for most provinces but not necessarily Ontario.  With the advent of the Law Practice Program, Ontario has basically thrown the doors open to anyone with a law degree (and NCA qualification if that law degree is not from Canada).  Anyway, it can be tough to make such far-reaching life choices at an early stage, but this one does really matter.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Dinsdale