Ottawa Recruit

[Jk1997]

Didn't get a job in the Toronto recruit, wondering what grades are necessary to be competitive for the Ottawa recruit, and if having no real ties to Ottawa will hurt my chances. 

[loonie]

Similar to the Toronto recruit, grades will be an important consideration in getting interviews. However, also similar to Toronto, there are other factors that will be considered and what is deemed competitive will vary by firm and have a rather large range. On the other hand, from what I hear, not having real ties to the Ottawa market will significantly impede your chances to land a job. The firms strongly prefer candidates who they believe will return for Articling positions and, later on, as associates. One way they judge this is whether candidates have pre-existing ties. Importantly, this does not mean it is impossible to land a job without pre-existing ties, but it is important for you to convey your willingness to stay and reasons you'll be a good fit for the specific firm's practices (usually different than Toronto) during interviews to improve your chances.

Best of luck going forward!

Edited November 15, 2023 by loonie

[non-monogamist]

5 hours ago, Jk1997 said:

Didn't get a job in the Toronto recruit, wondering what grades are necessary to be competitive for the Ottawa recruit, and if having no real ties to Ottawa will hurt my chances. 

If your goal is to work in Toronto why not just wait for the Toronto Articling recruit?

Assuming you spend the time, money, and energy to interview in Ottawa and end up getting the job, you’re committing yourself to making less money and living in a city you don’t wanna be in for at least another year (articling). If an Ottawa firm gives you an articling offer you’ll most likely accept which means you’ll spend almost an extra year in a city you don’t wanna live in.

Plus, there’s still no guarantee that you’ll be able to lateral to Toronto right after articling. Just because there’s a national firm with an office in Ottawa doesn’t mean there’ll be room for you at their Toronto office.

Which means that you could potentially be stuck in Ottawa even longer as you’d have to wait for a Toronto firm to want/need to hire a first year call…which is incredibly rare since in most cases they’ll just hire back their own articling  students. In a lot cases they won’t even hire back all of them, so you’d essentially have to beat out someone they spent ~10 months working with.

I understand that there’s a lot of pressure to get a job, hell I’m a 2L who sat out the Toronto recruit because I know that I want to live and work in Ottawa, so I completely understand how much it sucks listening to your friends who already have jobs lined up, but it’s completely normal not to have found a job yet. You have to remember that the majority of law students don’t land a position in the formal recruit and that despite this every law school still has a 95%+ articling rate. 

I wouldn’t chase a job in a city you don’t wanna be in and running the risk of having to live there for an extended period of time, especially when there are smaller firms in Toronto hiring outside of the recruit.

*Also it’s important to note that there will always be more applicants than positions available in the Ottawa recruit. So there’s a good chance that you let it be a distraction and prevent you from doing as well as you possibly can in 2L, which in turn will only make it that much harder to get a position in Toronto. 
 

[Jk1997]

3 minutes ago, non-monogamist said:

If your goal is to work in Toronto why not just wait for the Toronto Articling recruit?

Assuming you spend the time, money, and energy to interview in Ottawa and end up getting the job, you’re committing yourself to making less money and living in a city you don’t wanna be in for at least another year (articling). If an Ottawa firm gives you an articling offer you’ll most likely accept which means you’ll spend almost an extra year in a city you don’t wanna live in.

Plus, there’s still no guarantee that you’ll be able to lateral to Toronto right after articling. Just because there’s a national firm with an office in Ottawa doesn’t mean there’ll be room for you at their Toronto office.

Which means that you could potentially be stuck in Ottawa even longer as you’d have to wait for a Toronto firm to want/need to hire a first year call…which is incredibly rare since in most cases they’ll just hire back their own articling  students. In a lot cases they won’t even hire back all of them, so you’d essentially have to beat out someone they spent ~10 months working with.

I understand that there’s a lot of pressure to get a job, hell I’m a 2L who sat out the Toronto recruit because I know that I want to live and work in Ottawa, so I completely understand how much it sucks listening to your friends who already have jobs lined up, but it’s completely normal not to have found a job yet. You have to remember that the majority of law students don’t land a position in the formal recruit and that despite this every law school still has a 95%+ articling rate. 

I wouldn’t chase a job in a city you don’t wanna be in and running the risk of having to live there for an extended period of time, especially when there are smaller firms in Toronto hiring outside of the recruit.

*Also it’s important to note that there will always be more applicants than positions available in the Ottawa recruit. So there’s a good chance that you let it be a distraction and prevent you from doing as well as you possibly can in 2L, which in turn will only make it that much harder to get a position in Toronto. 
 

While Toronto is preferable, I have no problem living in Ottawa for a year or two before laterlling back to Toronto. I think the training I receive at a national firm could make it worth it the long run.

[non-monogamist]

8 minutes ago, Jk1997 said:

While Toronto is preferable, I have no problem living in Ottawa for a year or two before laterlling back to Toronto. I think the training I receive at a national firm could make it worth it the long run.

Fair enough, if that’s the case then you should definitely do the Ottawa recruit. Hell if your goal is to get into the biggest firm you possibly can I’d also consider the London recruit since Miller Thomson and Lerners both have offices there as well.

[BobsBurgers]

27 minutes ago, non-monogamist said:

Fair enough, if that’s the case then you should definitely do the Ottawa recruit. Hell if your goal is to get into the biggest firm you possibly can I’d also consider the London recruit since Miller Thomson and Lerners both have offices there as well.

Do you know when the Ottawa and London recruits are occurring for this year?

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, Jk1997 said:

While Toronto is preferable, I have no problem living in Ottawa for a year or two before laterlling back to Toronto. I think the training I receive at a national firm could make it worth it the long run.

You should 100% say that in your Ottawa interviews. Make sure it's clear. /s

[non-monogamist]

2 hours ago, BobsBurgers said:

Do you know when the Ottawa and London recruits are occurring for this year?

I know that Ottawa and London are some time in February, but I can’t recall the exact dates. I’d ask your CDO once they stop being so busy with Toronto. 

[chaboywb]

10 hours ago, Jk1997 said:

While Toronto is preferable, I have no problem living in Ottawa for a year or two before laterlling back to Toronto. I think the training I receive at a national firm could make it worth it the long run.

I truly don’t fault you for looking out for your own interests, but recruiters read this forum and it’s funny that the point you make here is the reason they prioritize an Ottawa connection. I’ve seen posters (not you) complain that this policy is unfair, but it’s obviously justified given how many people view markets like Ottawa as a launchpad back to Toronto.

For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t try to land an Ottawa job if you know you don’t want to stay there. First, it’s likely a waste of time if you have zero connection. Second, it’s not a simple transition to Toronto - I’ve seen students who articled in Ottawa at big law firms struggle to come back, even as associates. Third, you won’t make much money as an Ottawa summer or articling student and Ottawa is not cheap. Youre likely better off financially getting an RA job or non-recruit 2L position in the city you live in and then landing something in 3L.

Edited November 16, 2023 by chaboywb

[Jk1997]

Thanks for the insight didn't really consider that 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Jk1997

[Dinsdale]

7 hours ago, chaboywb said:

I truly don’t fault you for looking out for your own interests, but recruiters read this forum and it’s funny that the point you make here is the reason they prioritize an Ottawa connection. I’ve seen posters (not you) complain that this policy is unfair, but it’s obviously justified given how many people view markets like Ottawa as a launchpad back to Toronto.

For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t try to land an Ottawa job if you know you don’t want to stay there. First, it’s likely a waste of time if you have zero connection. Second, it’s not a simple transition to Toronto - I’ve seen students who articled in Ottawa at big law firms struggle to come back, even as associates. Third, you won’t make much money as an Ottawa summer or articling student and Ottawa is not cheap. Youre likely better off financially getting an RA job or non-recruit 2L position in the city you live in and then landing something in 3L.

"Recruiters read this forum" might be a bit of a stretch, but the underlying point is valid.  Ottawa firms (like firms everywhere, really) are looking to hire for the long term and therefore are looking to weed out obvious flight risks.  There are few things more maddening to firm management that investing years of time and money in a summer student who becomes an articling student who becomes a junior, only to see them take off just when they start to become profitable.  If this happens a lot the student director will hear about it from management, making her even more wary of flight risks out of self-preservation.  And in some national firms the various offices are individual profit centres, so "but we kept the person in our Toronto office" isn't much of a counter-argument.