Chances? cGPA: 3.33 (B2/L2: 3.52) LSAT: 168, 180

[charonny]

ADHD (not officially diagnosed so not included in application) & significant concussion at the end of high school have not been ideal for my ability to maintain a great GPA. Have taken 3-4 courses/term for two thirds of my degree.

Softs include chairing a women in politics conference with big name speakers, interning with provincial gov in health and attorney general portfolios, bilingual (en/fr) tour guide at overseas war memorial & provincial legislature, grocery cashier.

I'm just as shocked as you about my most recent LSAT score...

Applied to UofT, Osgoode, TMU, Ottawa, McGill - all in general categories.

Edited November 21, 2023 by charonny

[Naj]

24 minutes ago, charonny said:

my most recent LSAT score...

Probably in everywhere, with the caveat that I have no comment on U of T.

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

In everywhere in Canada, a 180 is a unicorn. There's perhaps a handful of other applicants with this score. Just don't write anything silly in your personal statement. 

[charonny]

7 hours ago, BurnerQuestion123 said:

In everywhere in Canada, a 180 is a unicorn. There's perhaps a handful of other applicants with this score. Just don't write anything silly in your personal statement. 

I'm just worried about how much my GPA and limited 5 course terms will bring me down. I know Canadian law schools place more emphasis on GPA than LSAT and other than last year (taking 3-4 courses/term), I haven't had a steady GPA increase from year to year

[2easy]

This is a ridiculous thread. You have a 180.

[charonny]

4 minutes ago, 2easy said:

This is a ridiculous thread. You have a 180.

I've been doomscrolling through articles about splitters and the various course-related things that certain schools (UofT) look down upon. Maybe I'm being crazy but the uncertainty about my GPA is getting to me 😭

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

You’ll be fine. LSAC reports 46 Canadian Applicants in the 175-180 bracket. I assume that very few have 180s in this area.

Just make sure your neuroticism and humble bragging doesn’t get foregrounded in your PS and you’re fine.

[Chef Justice]

I wouldn't say this is a ridiculous thread. OP, I get it. Your GPA isn't outstanding, and more so, your B2/L2 isn't impressive either. So, yes, you have some reason to initially worry. However, a 180 on the LSAT is, well, a 180. So, you've done the most that you can on that end.

You're going to get into Ottawa, Western, Queen's and Osgoode pretty much without a doubt (unless you admit to a crime in your PS or something). 180 is a whopping 18-20 points above those schools LSAT medians/means and they'd be fucking crazy to be like "but the GPA". 

McGill can be a bit of a blackbox and they also take your average LSAT score, not your highest. So you actually have a 174 to them...yeah, you're still likely getting in.

UofT is the only one that has any uncertainty. I'm assuming that your B3 is around the 3.4 range, which is not great. But, again, not many people have a 180 LSAT and UofT knows that. Still, this one is truly up in the air.

Even if you don't get into UofT and do get into every other school, you're going to be fine. 

[charonny]

1 hour ago, BurnerQuestion123 said:

You’ll be fine. LSAC reports 46 Canadian Applicants in the 175-180 bracket. I assume that very few have 180s in this area.

Just make sure your neuroticism and humble bragging doesn’t get foregrounded in your PS and you’re fine.

My bad if I came across as trying to humble brag 🫠 I didn't get my score until well after applications were due so at least it wasn't in my PS lol. Hoping I did a good job of hiding the neuroticism in my PS too 🙃

Appreciate all your help, thanks!

[charonny]

1 hour ago, Chef Justice said:

I wouldn't say this is a ridiculous thread. OP, I get it. Your GPA isn't outstanding, and more so, your B2/L2 isn't impressive either. So, yes, you have some reason to initially worry. However, a 180 on the LSAT is, well, a 180. So, you've done the most that you can on that end.

You're going to get into Ottawa, Western, Queen's and Osgoode pretty much without a doubt (unless you admit to a crime in your PS or something). 180 is a whopping 18-20 points above those schools LSAT medians/means and they'd be fucking crazy to be like "but the GPA". 

McGill can be a bit of a blackbox and they also take your average LSAT score, not your highest. So you actually have a 174 to them...yeah, you're still likely getting in.

UofT is the only one that has any uncertainty. I'm assuming that your B3 is around the 3.4 range, which is not great. But, again, not many people have a 180 LSAT and UofT knows that. Still, this one is truly up in the air.

Even if you don't get into UofT and do get into every other school, you're going to be fine. 

UofT is probably my top choice which I think is why, despite the LSAT score, the feeling of uncertainty is still nagging me. Appreciate your insight! I'm grateful to have someone validate my concerns and give me a straightforward and blunt explanation. It definitely calmed my nerves a bit, thanks!

[chaboywb]

3 hours ago, 2easy said:

This is a ridiculous thread. You have a 180.

3 hours ago, BurnerQuestion123 said:

Just make sure your neuroticism and humble bragging doesn’t get foregrounded in your PS and you’re fine.

Man, the 180 is really bringing out the jealousy here. 

OP will undoubtedly get in at most places on their list but is undoubtedly a splitter for UofT and certainly not a shoo-in. I think it's very valid for anyone who has gotten accepted to UofT with similar stats to chime in.

Congrats on a huge accomplishment, OP!

Edited November 22, 2023 by chaboywb

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

16 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

Man, the 180 is really bringing out the jealousy here. 

Less of a jealous remark, and more of an admittedly snide remark, given that I assumed someone with a perfect score and an upward trending GPA can reasonably ascertain their high chances everywhere without the need for internet affirmation. In retrospect, my post could have done without that last paragraph. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by BurnerQuestion123

[charonny]

1 hour ago, chaboywb said:

Man, the 180 is really bringing out the jealousy here. 

OP will undoubtedly get in at most places on their list but is undoubtedly a splitter for UofT and certainly not a shoo-in. I think it's very valid for anyone who has gotten accepted to UofT with similar stats to chime in.

Congrats on a huge accomplishment, OP!

Appreciate the support!

[soundofconfusion]

2 hours ago, BurnerQuestion123 said:

Less of a jealous remark, and more of an admittedly snide remark, given that I assumed someone with a perfect score and an upward trending GPA can reasonably ascertain their high chances everywhere without the need for internet affirmation. In retrospect, my post could have done without that last paragraph. 

Frankly, you could have done without posting this too. This is also kind of needlessly dickish.

I might not think so if the OP had a 3.7 cGPA and a 3.9 L2. But as it is their cGPA isn't great, their B2 is slightly better but still at best incredibly meh, and Canadian law schools place a fairly high importance on GPA. Will they get in everywhere bar UofT, and possibly to UofT? Probably. But it was a valid question to ask; they weren't bigging themselves up. Not everyone lurks on law school forums for years before applying, and they shouldn't be expected to.

[Yogurt Baron]

Been a while since I've applied and maybe things have changed, but back in my day, Canadian law schools tended to prize GPA at the expense of the LSAT, so this isn't a stupid question.

To say nothing of the fact that, look, there are people who could write a hundred LSATs and get a hundred 180s, and then there are people who can get a 168 and then go back and get a 180. It is not unreasonable that a person in the latter category might be having a bit of impostor syndrome about whether they're really that good.

I have no idea what the OP's chances are, but it's okay that they asked.

[LawLurker88]

Don't really get the comments here. Most schools seem to rank GPA and LSAT pretty evenly (many even saying they do it 50/50) and some even mention they favour GPA. If OP had a 4.3 GPA and a 155 (ie perfect and a bit below average), I doubt these comments would be so harsh, but in reality that is a pretty similar situation if schools are truly looking at GPA and LSAT 50/50 like they claim. 

Some schools (like UVic) seem to use LSAT percentile more than score. So a 180 is not functionally that different at some schools than say a 173 (other than the wow factor), since it's 99 vs 99.9th percentile... only giving you a 1% boost, less than going from a 160 to a 161. Many schools also seem to care more about their median LSAT than their average LSAT, so again a 180 will not functionally shift their stats more than a 170+, which means someone with a 170 LSAT and higher GPA could be seen as a more desirable candidate if they are worried about their medians. 

Just an applicant myself, but I think you have a stellar shot everywhere OP, except for U of T which will likely be a toss up. I don't think it's ridiculous that you asked. 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by LawLurker88

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

After reflecting on the other posts, I definitely came off as too boorish. I apologize for this OP.

Looking at this link in tandem with the accepted/rejected threads may be helpful: 

https://report.lsac.org/VolumeSummary.aspx

I don't think you need to stress too much, you're a very unique Applicant stats-wise, and I'm sure your interesting softs gave you a lot of good material to lean into for your personal statement. 

[Dghoul]

OP's worry is 100% genuine and legitimate. It's uneasy being a splitter, especially with uncommon backgrounds.

I know a moderator on reddit's law school admission Canada subreddit who was accepted to Uoft with 3.5 cGPA and 180 LSAT. Uoft admission session this year also said they have rejected 180 scorers before, but did not mention their GPAs. It is hard to say what Uoft would decide in OP's case.

For other schools, the chance is much better, I would say pretty much assured.

[CleanHands]

I was a high LSAT/low cGPA splitter. I did not have a 180, but I did have a 99th percentile LSAT score. My cGPA was a bit lower but my B2/L2 were a bit higher than the OP. I had medical documentation to explain/contextualize my grades.

I was outright rejected (never waitlisted) at UofT.

The OP's question is completely legitimate, they aren't humblebragging, and they are not an obvious shoo-in everywhere.

[LSH666]

OP's concerns are completely valid. I had the exact same concerns when I applied last cycle (163, then 175 LSAT, 3.60 CGPA, 3.76 B3).

Allow me to offer you some hope. I got my offer to U of T around mid December. Splitters have a chance! Your CGPA is a little on the low end, but your LSAT score, and improvement over your first one, is something you should be proud of! It will really depend on the circumstances for your lower CGPA (medical reasons, difficult undergrad program like STEM), and the quality of your PS. Best of luck! I hope I see you here next year!

[CleanHands]

Since this thread is preserved for posterity and future splitters will look at it, I would like to note that the OP has since indicated that they were rejected from UofT and McGill.

Congrats to the OP on their acceptances elsewhere! But the OP got undeserved heckling for asking about admission chances as if it were a stupid question, and with the benefit of hindsight it clearly was not.

Edited April 13 by CleanHands

[charonny]

Little update in case anyone was wondering how their predictions panned out:

Mid-late December A at uOttawa & early-mid January A at Osgoode.

R at UofT and early April R at McGill.

Firm accepted Oz in mid-March (right after the UofT R lol) before hearing back from TMU.

I don't think I said anything ridiculous in my PS and I assume my LORs were decent, so I guess you really can't be sure! Very happy and grateful to be starting at Oz in the fall!

Also @CleanHands congrats on beating me to the punch 😂

[CleanHands]

Just now, charonny said:

Also @CleanHands congrats on beating me to the punch 😂

Haha, sorry dude, I would have butted out if I knew you were planning on this public service post (which is appreciated).