UBC va UVIC

[bettybluebells]

I know this thread has been done before but I just got accepted into both schools and I have no idea how to decide which to choose. Does anyone have any advice or personal experiences? I think both are fantastic options that’s why it’s so hard. 

[Layton1313]

Have you visited either city? Where would you rather live? Both are high COL with Victoria being slightly cheaper.

Both have super strong employment placements in BC, you would likely be able to find a job anywhere in the province from either school. UBC probably has a little more clout nationwide if you want to work in a different province later.

UVic has some pretty strong Indigenous/Environmental law programs and is close to the BC Govt, while UBC tends to be a little more corporate focused from my experience. Depends what you may want to practice. Both are ultimately pretty well rounded schools.

I've applied to both and UBC is personally my top choice, but would be ecstatic to go to UVic as well.

[bettybluebells]

I think I’m worried that UBC will be “harder” or let’s say more competitive. Would you agree?

[CleanHands]

1 hour ago, bettybluebells said:

I think I’m worried that UBC will be “harder” or let’s say more competitive. Would you agree?

UVic has comparable admission standards and I can't imagine there would be a notable difference. I say this as a UBC alum.

[bocuma]

UVic feels very "social justice" oriented, which can be good or bad depending on the person. It also means there's a lot less excitement about big law or corporate jobs, less firm networking events, the classrooms aren't named after firms, etc etc. I went to UVic for 1L and transferred after and that was honestly something I really missed. UBC on the other hand, has firms there all the time, speakers from local firms are there regularly, there's tons of corporate classes etc., almost everyone participates in the formal recruit. I missed all of the big law networking during 1L at UVic and had no problems during the formal recruit - I'm actually glad I wasn't at UBC for 1L because at UVic I was just focused on learning without the pressure of biglaw networking events etc. I'm convinced that none of that shit matters and that it's a big disservice to the poor UBC 1Ls who feel like they need to be networking while figuring out what they're even doing at law school. It also gives UBC a way more "networky" vibe which I hate, although I've met some really great people at UBC.

Other notable differences are that you'll have far, far better adjuncts at UBC on the whole than at UVic (my friends who finished their degrees at UVic had some of the worst educational experiences of their lives there). UVic also has problems with offering enough courses for law students to take, and has nowhere near the breadth of course offerings that UBC does. As an example, I have friends going into criminal law at UVic that never took an upper year criminal law course because they weren't offered or there weren't enough spaces. This is pretty much never an issue at UBC. Likewise, UBC has way, way more experiential learning courses.

Oh, and if you want to get a non-big law job UVic is really well positioned for that kind of stuff - I know people who have landed some really amazing non-biglaw positions through the co-op program there. Nowhere else in Canada has a program like that.

The cities could also not be more different - Victoria is boring as fuck, coffee shops close at 5 pm, the food is mediocre unless you pay an arm and a leg, and there is no nightlife, at all. Vancouver, on the other hand, is one of the most interesting and vibrant cities in Canada. Both are good for outdoor activities, but if you like snowsports then Victoria is pretty much a writeoff in that department. The ferry to Victoria is also far, far more of a pain in the ass than you would think. Rent is insane in Vancouver, like it's bad in Victoria too but people are renting bedrooms for $1400 now.

Edited December 5, 2023 by bocuma

[bettybluebells]

Thanks for the reply, I feel like both schools have their pros and cons, but it sounds like ubc offers more opportunities and I’m just scared I will miss out on those if I choose uvic. I have no clue what type of law I want to study so I don’t want to close myself off to big law by maybe going to uvic. Was it easy to transfer?

[bocuma]

2 hours ago, bettybluebells said:

Thanks for the reply, I feel like both schools have their pros and cons, but it sounds like ubc offers more opportunities and I’m just scared I will miss out on those if I choose uvic. I have no clue what type of law I want to study so I don’t want to close myself off to big law by maybe going to uvic. Was it easy to transfer?

You will not close yourself off to any opportunities by going to UVic, none of the extra networking or corporate law stuff that UBC offers matters for the purpose of the big law recruits.

Transfers are competitive, so you need to do at least sort of well in 1L if you want to transfer.

[Byzantine]

Look through the upper year course offerings for both schools. That was big for me. 
 

edit: if you have any other questions for someone who went to UBC let me know 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Byzantine

[Byzantine]

1 hour ago, bocuma said:

You will not close yourself off to any opportunities by going to UVic, none of the extra networking or corporate law stuff that UBC offers matters for the purpose of the big law recruits.

Transfers are competitive, so you need to do at least sort of well in 1L if you want to transfer.

Slightly disagree here. I didn't do networking events either and I did fine in the recruit. Still, I noticed working this summer that the firm did seem to take it seriously and developed a list of students they were interested in before recruit started. Grades matter most, but I think the networking events can be helpful as well both to get a job and figure out which of the firms you're actually interested in. All the firms websites look exactly the same so it's hard to get a sense what sets them apart without either attending events or talking to people from the firm. You don't want to neglect your studies to do it, but it can be helpful. Also, free food and drinks. 

[Aschenbach]

On 12/2/2023 at 8:17 PM, bettybluebells said:

I think I’m worried that UBC will be “harder” or let’s say more competitive. Would you agree?

I don't think UBC will be harder (also a UBC alum), but your classmates may be more competitive and this may negatively impact your experience. I would probably go where your support networks are more established. Law school can be a huge mental drain and having a good support network is crucial.

[bettybluebells]

16 hours ago, Byzantine said:

Look through the upper year course offerings for both schools. That was big for me. 
 

edit: if you have any other questions for someone who went to UBC let me know 

Yea I have plenty of questions! Where can I message you on?

[bettybluebells]

Do any of these schools have curves?

[Diplock]

1 hour ago, bettybluebells said:

Do any of these schools have curves?

Umm. Yes? All schools have curves. Are you seriously asking if you are going to be graded in a vacuum, anywhere, rather than being implicitly compared against the students around you?

If anyone has ever convinced you that any school you've ever intended does not have a curve, they were either lying, or confused about the nature of the question, or you were confused about the nature of the answer. If you want a good grade, getting that grade relies not on achieving some abstract standard divorced from what other students are achieving. "Good" means "better than what other students at your level are doing." Getting a good grade in law school - any law school - depends on outperforming your peers. Everywhere.

[Byzantine]

8 hours ago, bettybluebells said:

Do any of these schools have curves?

It's a reasonable question. Allard is definitely curved and I believe the same for most (all?) other law schools. The curve is pretty tight meaning most students will be close to the average (which is a B). That means there won't be many A's, but also not many C's. 

[Diplock]

19 minutes ago, Byzantine said:

It's a reasonable question. Allard is definitely curved and I believe the same for most (all?) other law schools. The curve is pretty tight meaning most students will be close to the average (which is a B). That means there won't be many A's, but also not many C's. 

It is a reasonable question to ask about grading policies and the distribution of grades. That's a question about how a curve is applied in practice. But asking if a school has a curve at all is actually an inane question that misses the entire nature of what it means to receive a grade in an academic environment.

Look, the person who asked the question has very good grades from their undergrad. So it isn't like that individual has historically been disadvantaged by competition. But any time someone asks a question here that displays their hope of opting out of competing with their peers in law school, in legal practice, or anywhere else it's going to get a negative reply from me. Because it's a bad thing to want, and a stupid thing to expect. This isn't a single-player game. It's a massively multiple-player game, and your success at this game can only come, and can only even be defined, by out-performing the people around you. Anyone who is reluctant to engage in that competition had better get over that fear quickly. Because there is no alternative.

[Byzantine]

15 minutes ago, Diplock said:

It is a reasonable question to ask about grading policies and the distribution of grades. That's a question about how a curve is applied in practice. But asking if a school has a curve at all is actually an inane question that misses the entire nature of what it means to receive a grade in an academic environment.

Look, the person who asked the question has very good grades from their undergrad. So it isn't like that individual has historically been disadvantaged by competition. But any time someone asks a question here that displays their hope of opting out of competing with their peers in law school, in legal practice, or anywhere else it's going to get a negative reply from me. Because it's a bad thing to want, and a stupid thing to expect. This isn't a single-player game. It's a massively multiple-player game, and your success at this game can only come, and can only even be defined, by out-performing the people around you. Anyone who is reluctant to engage in that competition had better get over that fear quickly. Because there is no alternative.

That's not right from my understanding. Obviously there's some level of competition and comparison in any class. But curving grades is only applied in some academic environments (like law school). In undergrad some of my classes were curved, some weren't. 

[TheDevilIKnow]

14 hours ago, Diplock said:

But asking if a school has a curve at all is actually an inane question that misses the entire nature of what it means to receive a grade in an academic environment.

In fairness to OP, Profs at UVic consistently and explicitly deny that there is a curve. At all. As far as I could tell, they were lying or at least fudging the meaning of words. But the very fact that some schools are not at all forthcoming with their grading schemes makes this, in my view, a very reasonable question. For all I know, this may only be the case at UVic, but that's one of the schools OP was talking about. For someone new to law and looking at this school, it's not a sign of delusion or denial not to have already figured this stuff out.