Hireback for MAG

[KingoftheBritons]

Hello all: 

I will be articling with MAG starting this summer. Can someone let me know what the chances of hireback/what factors are considered for hireback? For instance, how important are grades? In a private firm, I understand that grades don't carry much weight given that you will be hired back based on your performance during the articling period. But, I suspect this is different in the public service in light of the more bureaucratic process in place. 

Many thanks! 

[ZineZ]

23 minutes ago, KingoftheBritons said:

Hello all: 

I will be articling with MAG starting this summer. Can someone let me know what the chances of hireback/what factors are considered for hireback? For instance, how important are grades? In a private firm, I understand that grades don't carry much weight given that you will be hired back based on your performance during the articling period. But, I suspect this is different in the public service in light of the more bureaucratic process in place. 

Many thanks! 

Are we talking criminal law, or something on the other side (CLOC/line ministry, CLB etc)?

I'll address this question later - but no, your grades won't matter. 

 

[KingoftheBritons]

Apologies for not including this info! The position is with a line ministry in the civil law division. 

Thanks in advance for your response. 

Edited March 18 by KingoftheBritons

[Kibitzer]

It's quite difficult to give the chances of hireback. That said, what I was always told is that if someone wants to return to MAG after articling, provided they are willing to be flexible with the office/type of work, they usually can find their way back in a year. If you are only interested in the office you are articling in, the biggest factor for hireback IMO is luck whereas if you are flexible luck is still important but less so. 

You can be hired back in two ways. One is by winning a competition for a job and the second is by receiving an emergency contract. 

Keep in mind that currently, it is rare for offices to be adding new counsel positions to their offices. By that I mean that each office has a dedicated number of seats and they can't add additional seats. Therefore someone has to go on a leave/change offices/leave MAG/retire, etc, in order for the office to be able to hire someone new to fill that existing seat. 

Hiring Through Competition 

In the normal course to be hired as counsel within MAG you need to win a job competition. In simple terms, the collective agreement requires that absent special circumstances, a job posting must first be posted to internal candidates before it can be opened to external candidates. Internal candidates includes current counsel, counsel who have recently been employed within MAG, and Articling students for a period of two years after they finish their articles (they actually become eligible starting April 1st of their Articling year). This means, when competing for positions you are potentially competing against other current articling students, other recent articling students, and other counsel of all years of call. This is one area where luck comes into play. Does the office have their mind set on a mid-level to senior counsel or are they willing to take on a new call? 

When applying through a competition your written application consists of a resume, cover letter, and references (although I understand they aren't checked until towards the end). Transcripts are not requested. There is also of course an interview component. Like your articling interview, counsel applications/interviews are scored. What matters most is liekly how you did on your interview and the strength of your application. Competitions are to be awarded to the best scoring candidate. 

That said, even though it is a competition, the work you have done and the way you have carried yourself during articling is also important. Competitions are still subjective and I personally believe if a hiring manager has someone in mind for the position, they will try to find a way to make sure that person gets the points. If applying back to your branch, then of course your office will be familiar with your work. If applying elsewhere, your references can play an important role. 

Hiring Through Emergency Contracts

It is possible to be hired on an emergency contract without a competition. Under the collective agreement, these contracts can only be for certain short durations and you have to eventually compete for the job to stay in the position. A manager has to have some type of justification for an emergency contract such that a competition isn't appropriate. This means they are more rare than competitions but it is a way whereby a manager can more easily hireback a preferred student. 

If you secure an emergency contract, it is much easier to stay in MAG. To start, assuming they still need that work done, you will be able to score quite well in a competition as you are already doing the work. Even if applying to another office, you now have counsel experience you can highlight in your interview and therefore can score better. 

 

Overall, I think luck is the biggest factor because whether its your office or another office, they have to have an opening you would be qualified for at a time when you are eligible/interested in applying. The last thing I would say that may not be obvious to everyone is that networking can be an important tool within MAG. By developing good relationships with colleagues in your office and other offices you will learn more about what other offices are doing, current issues facing that ministry (which helps for answering interview questions) and when they have relevant opportunities. 

[ZineZ]

2 hours ago, Kibitzer said:

Keep in mind that currently, it is rare for offices to be adding new counsel positions to their offices. By that I mean that each office has a dedicated number of seats and they can't add additional seats. Therefore someone has to go on a leave/change offices/leave MAG/retire, etc, in order for the office to be able to hire someone new to fill that existing seat. 

 

I'm going to build on what @Kibitzer has said and also offer some of my own insights. The paragraph above is relevant for a lot of what I'm going to say.

The fact that there's fixed seats means that generally, you will need for the Branch to either have applied for additional positions (which is very rarely granted) or for someone to either go on mat leave, retire or join another branch (which does happen relatively often). This means that the offices where you have the best chance of getting hired back are either those that are much larger and see a lot more movement (think ENERGY, Health etc) or have a cohort of senior counsel who may be retiring.

If neither happens, your branch may not be able to hire you back - regardless of how much they want to do so. You'll then be competing for any positions that come up across MAG. I'm going to be frank - it's exceedingly difficult to land a position sometimes as you'll be competing with the following groups of individuals:

• The relevant Branch's own articling students (who often have an advantage);
• Already employed counsel who are interested in that Branch and;
• In some cases - an incumbent who needs to re-up their fixed term contract (it takes three years to roll over).

This can be difficult. I think there's more movement now than when I finished articling (around the start of the pandemic) - but the stats for all of MAG (including criminal law) for hireback are somewhere around 40%. And crim will often hire back folks at a much, much hire rate.

This doesn't mean that it's impossible - just that you need to be willing to hustle a bit for any positions. I'd encourage you to do the following:

• Have an initial conversation with your LD around January to find out how hiring is looking (acknowledging they may not know yet - but that you're just starting to look ahead).
• Start reaching out for coffees with counsel in Feb or March from places you're interested in. Show up prepped for those conversations and show an interest in the Branch. If you impress them, it's very likely that they'll forward your information to their LD or DD (this is what happened with me).
• Keep knocking on your own Branch's door - even after you finish articling. Even if you don't get a position right away, you'll stay in the hireback pool for two years. You can go work elsewhere - and then come back after gaining some experience.

As an additional note, doing the kind of networking above can also help put you at the top of the line for emergency contracts.  

Generally, folks in the OPS understand how difficult hirebacks can be. They're often very supportive and will go out of their way to help (I had people spend HOURS coaching me for interviews and providing advice on what to do). You can absolutely make the situation work. Just be aware that there's a chance that you may need to deal with a period of unemployment if the cards don't fall your way. That's completely fine and normal - people come back after working outside the Branch in many cases.

[KingoftheBritons]

Hi Kibitzer and Zine: 

Thank you both so much for your comprehensive answers. You've fully addressed my concerns and then some. 

Thanks again!

[ZineZ]

I got a follow-up question on this post which I'll be answering here (after talking to OP) so @Kibitzer and some of the other OPS folks can provide an answer:

Quote

I came across your comment about MAG hireback in a thread from a couple days ago. Another commenter mentioned that emergency contracts are possible.

Do you know if emergency contracts (i.e. short term 3/6 month contracts) can continuously get rolled over and extended indefinitely?

Or is it likely the case that if an emergency contract is signed, that this will be a one-and-done thing, without chance of extension?

My recollection is that the maximum length of an emergency contract for the same position is either 10 or 12 months (I think 12). You can to another branch for an emergency contract - but the collective agreement doesn't let contracts be extended indefinitely.

Part of the reason is that that after 36 months of service, you roll over into a fulltime position.  So ALOC isn't a huge fan of people being able to do this without ever competing/for others to get a shot on that contract.

Just now, ZineZ said:

I got a follow-up question on this post which I'll be answering here (after talking to OP) so @Kibitzer and some of the other OPS folks can provide an answer:

My recollection is that the maximum length of an emergency contract for the same position is either 10 or 12 months (I think 12). You can to another branch for an emergency contract - but the collective agreement doesn't let contracts be extended indefinitely.

Part of the reason is that that after 36 months of service, you roll over into a fulltime position.  So ALOC isn't a huge fan of people being able to do this without ever competing/for others to get a shot on that contract.

That being said, by the way - if you're able to successfully get that first contract - you're usually pretty set for other competitions. The difficulty is always getting the door open - after it's easy to move around and find employment. Especially if you're in a decent niche and are even somewhat talented.