Columbia vs UofT (LL.M.)

[CommeCiCommeCa]

I have recently been admitted to Columbia and UofT for my LL.M. and I'm struggling to decide between the two (mainly for financial reasons). For some background info, my ultimate goal is to be a prof, and I'd rather not have to work a bay street/NYC big law job for a few years to have to pay off a ton of debt. UofT has offered me a full-ride scholarship, and I'm still waiting on the financial aid decision from Columbia.

I'm trying to figure out if I would be absolutely crazy to turn down Columbia for UofT (in the event I don't receive a good scholarship to attend Columbia). I've spoken to some of my old law school profs and have gotten mixed reviews as to the value of an Ivy league degree for academic appointments, but most of the profiles of professors at the law schools I would like to teach at seem to have either an LL.M. or SJD from a school like Yale, Harvard, Oxbridge, Columbia, Berkeley, etc., which makes me feel like I'd be crazy to turn down Columbia. On the other hand, the tuition at Columbia is about USD 85k (before even factoring in the cost of living in NYC), whereas my LL.M. at UofT would be fully covered (including living costs). I'm worried that the debt associated with the LL.M. at Columbia would be so crippling I would feel like I have to work in big law for a few years to pay it off -- which puts the career I'd like to have on hold, and just isn't a lifestyle I would enjoy.  

Essentially, I'm wondering if people think the debt is worth it for the the degree from Columbia (with the understanding that my earning potential in the next few years won't be in the range where it would be easy to pay off that kind of debt relatively quickly) in an eventuality where Columbia does not offer a lot of funding? 

[GoatDuck]

Prestige of the program is very important for academic jobs but it goes more so for doctoral-level programs. Eventually, you will want to get into a top PhD/SJD program, and that's where the discussion of prestige will be material. Though even there it would be a bad idea to attend any institution that's not giving you a full-ride. With very rare exceptions, Master's level programs don't carry the sort of prestige that's relevant either for admission into top doctoral-level programs or for future job search, so I would not even think about Columbia if I were you. Get your LLM at UofT, save money, and then apply broadly to top SJD and PhD programs. Any top school worth your time will give you full funding for that, at least for PhDs, and the strength of your application will depend almost entirely on the quality of your writing sample and research proposal. The marginal advantage for applying to doctoral-level programs that you may gain by attending Columbia is almost 100% offset by the poor financial wisdom of attending there given that your chances to get a tenure-track job at the end of the day aren't super high even coming out of a top program.

[Ben]

1 hour ago, GoatDuck said:

With very rare exceptions, Master's level programs don't carry the sort of prestige that's relevant either for admission into top doctoral-level programs or for future job search, so I would not even think about Columbia if I were you.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the upshot of your post, because U of T’s LLM is a very good program, but this part of what you’ve said is not really true at all with respect to LLMs and is not particularly good advice. 

OP, you can PM me if you like, I have some experience with this and can chat if you want 

Edited March 22 by Ben

[PzabbytheLawyer]

Just fyi that most if not all American SJD programs essentially require you to have done your LLM there. It sucks, but it's their way of getting some cash out of you and testing your academic chops before paying you to do the 5-7 year doctoral degree there.

Debt is a worrying thing, naturally. Feel free to DM me as I have experience with a lot of things you're considering (and I'm unsure, but I think we're both McGill alumni).

Either way, congrats 🙂