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Is it really that bad to go to Bond/Leeds/etc?


Xxyz
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Xxyz
  • Applicant

I’m a bit torn on wether to apply to law school this fall. I’m in my (upper…) mid twenties & have always wanted to work abroad, but COVID waylaid my plans. I got bored last fall, wrote the LSAT in January, and started to consider the idea of applying to law school. I am hesitant because of the length of the Canadian programs (I’ll be 30+ when I finish) and the restrictions it’d place on me, including my ability to live/work abroad in the near future. So, on the recommendation of a friend, I started looking at schools in the UK as I was originally planning on moving there anyway, and then I added Bond to the list because Australian weather is just so tempting! I actually have a friend who went to Bond & loved it, and has had no problems finding work in Canada… but the general opinion of foreign schools seems to be so resoundingly negative that I’m really hesitant. Is it truly as bad as all that?

 

P.s. I can do math. I understand the difference in tuition, and the cost of moving abroad. But I’ve been working for a few years now, & would willingly  spend the money for the life experience general, so long as I’m not throwing money away on a sub-par education. 

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epeeist
  • Lawyer
14 minutes ago, Xxyz said:

...have always wanted to work abroad, but COVID waylaid my plans. I got bored last fall, wrote the LSAT in January, and started to consider the idea of applying to law school. I am hesitant because of the length of the Canadian programs (I’ll be 30+ when I finish) and the restrictions it’d place on me, including my ability to live/work abroad in the near future. ...

[portion only quoted, emphasis added]

I went to law school years ago, so no recent experience, but:

The ONLY reason you should be going to law school is if you want to become a lawyer and work as a lawyer. And if you want to live and work in Canada as a lawyer, you should go to a Canadian law school, not a foreign law school.

There are successful people who went elsewhere, etc., if someone is fully aware of all the downsides that's one thing, but don't spend years and hundreds of thousands because you were bored! Unless you're a bored millionaire, okay go ahead.

And, if your long-term goal is to live and work overseas, why in the world (literally) would you want to go to a program aimed specifically at becoming a Canadian lawyer, whether in Canada or elsewhere?! Just to spend a few years at a foreign university studying an expensive program many find very difficult and time-consuming?!

Note, I went to law school years ago, so to the extent you rely on free advice pay more attention to others, but I doubt anyone here is going to encourage you to go to law school because you were bored

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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer

Without going into specifics, where and what is your friend doing now? I don't know anyone that went to a school like Bond and had no trouble finding a job here, unless they moved to a small town where they were originally from, or had some connections. 

You should do more research but many UK graduates are not even able to practice law in the UK because they can't secure training contracts. Before you pursue any of these paths, you should individually research each jurisdiction's path to licensing and the difficulties of obtaining permanent residence and citizenship in these countries. Simply saying that you want to travel, enjoy nice weather, and work abroad is not enough for the time and money you are investing into this path. DO YOUR RESEARCH. 

Yes, if you want to work in Europe or Australia, absolutely go to law school in these jurisdictions. If you want to work in Canada, go to law school in Canada. It's not a far-fetched idea to assume that Canadian legal employers want to hire people that actually studied law in Canada. Law is not a universal language that is the same everywhere. 

You are competing with ~2500 Canadian law school graduates flooding the market every year. You are competing with foreign trained lawyers with significant amount of experience immigrating to Canada. You are competing with foreign trained lawyers that attended top ivy league schools and Oxbridge. Given all this competition in a small Canadian legal market, where do you think UK schools and Bond stack up? How are you going to set yourself apart to prospective employers when there is this much competition, and the stigma that you only went abroad because you could not get into law school here? You yourself say that you don't want to bother with the amount of time it takes to be a lawyer here. Which should tell you how much more worthwhile it is to actually go through this process and get it done. 

If you want to enjoy warm weather, go do your master's there or go on vacation. Why would you pursue a law degree like it is a vacation? There is a reason why anyone with a pulse and some money to throw can get into these schools. 

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Just own the fact that you want to travel. Telling other people you are attending law school might distract them into thinking you have direction and purpose in life, but it’s pretty clear that you really just want travel and good weather. 

So take a year or two and get it out of your system. Then if you want to practise law in Canada, apply to a Canadian law school. 

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Whist
  • Law Student

I know more than one 30+ year old starting law school. Obviously, the older you are the more commitments tend to pile up and make going back to school difficult, but don't let age alone prevent you from going. My advice would be to do some travelling/living in the countries you'd like to see, and if you want to stay, go to law school there or pursue whatever venture catches your fancy. Go to law school in Canada if you want to work in Canada. You should also ask yourself why you want to go to law school or be a lawyer.

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PulpFiction
  • Lawyer

If you've got money and strong connections to your desired legal market, it's not the worst idea. 

In most cases it doesn't make sense. You pay a lot, usually more than Canadian law schools, to learn another country's laws, while establishing no real network and having to deal with the headache of travel and being away from friends/family. 

If you're interested in starting your own practice, it could also be a realistic option (assuming finances are in order). But remember, being good at law and good at business are two very, very different things. If you think you can figure the law part out and are confident in your business skills, it might not be a bad idea. The chances of you joining a big firm with your foreign degree aren't high - though I've seen it happen more than once - but you can set up your own practice with relative ease. 

The most successful lawyers I know are foreign-trained. I can't speak to their legal skills, but these guys set up shop right after getting called and are absolutely killing it financially. My Canadian-trained friends of similar year call - mostly corp guys on Bay - are not even in the same league as the foreign trained criminal/immigration/real estate guys I'm thinking about. It would be wise to remember that there's probably a ton of foreign-trained grads struggling and not seeing anything close to the success I'm describing. It's probably the case that you'll not have that level of success and the more likely outcome is you're going to end up like most other foreign-trained grads. But you never know. The guys I'm talking about are hustlers and they'd probably make money one way or another. If that sounds like you, maybe give it a shot if you can't get into a Canadian school. 

 

 

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luckycharm

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Posted June 25

Rejected yesterday from single. 
167 LSAT (Jan 2021, 1 attempt) high 2s GPA, Hon BSc. 
Referred mid March. 

Applied general, but should have applied access. Didn’t really understand the process- looking forward to applying more broadly next year (only applied single JD) now that I understand the process more. 

 

What is your B2 and L2 per OLSAS?

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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer
2 hours ago, PulpFiction said:

If you've got money and strong connections to your desired legal market, it's not the worst idea. 

In most cases it doesn't make sense. You pay a lot, usually more than Canadian law schools, to learn another country's laws, while establishing no real network and having to deal with the headache of travel and being away from friends/family. 

If you're interested in starting your own practice, it could also be a realistic option (assuming finances are in order). But remember, being good at law and good at business are two very, very different things. If you think you can figure the law part out and are confident in your business skills, it might not be a bad idea. The chances of you joining a big firm with your foreign degree aren't high - though I've seen it happen more than once - but you can set up your own practice with relative ease. 

The most successful lawyers I know are foreign trained. I can't speak to their legal skills, but these guys set up shop right after getting called and are absolutely killing it financially. My Canadian-trained friends of similar year call - mostly corp guys on Bay - are not even in the same league as the foreign trained criminal/immigration/real estate guys I'm thinking about. It would be wise to remember that there's probably a ton of foreign-trained grads struggling and not seeing anything close to the success I'm describing. It's probably the case that you'll not have that level of success and the more likely outcome is you're going to end up like most other foreign-trained grads. But you never know. The guys I'm talking about are hustlers and they'd probably make money one way or another. If that sounds like you, maybe give it a shot if you can't get into a Canadian school. 

 

 

There is a common misconception in your post that you only go to law school for financial gain. If money is your primary or sole driving factor, there are easier ways than a law degree. There are a ton of real estate and mortgage agents making more money than lawyers. Would I see these people as being more successful than a crown prosecutor that makes 80k? No. Do I think foreign trained lawyers who are making a killing as entrepreneurs, as being more successful than my peers on Bay Street who paid their dues and will likely have better careers in the long run? No. There are a lot of people in this profession that make less money who I think have very impressive profiles. Obviously, how we deem a successful person in this business is subjective, but I know a number of people on this forum share my view and left lucrative careers, or did not pursue things like corporate law, because they wanted to do other, more meaningful things with their lives. It sounds like the OP already has a decent job right now, too.

It's frankly dangerous advice to say a foreign trained lawyer should even set up their own shop after getting called. I too know many foreign trained lawyers that have done this, and while they make good money, I feel sorry for their clients. Many of these lawyers are incompetent because they have not learned the Canadian law properly and/or received proper training. You'll see many of their names come up over the years in law society disciplinary proceedings. Many of these lawyers target vulnerable clients and milk all the money they can get from them. No, we should certainly not be labeling these as "successful lawyers."

@CleanHands would know more about the criminal and immigration aspects, but I have rarely seen good criminal and immigration lawyers in the profession that went to a foreign law school. And don't even get me started on real estate...there is a reason why real estate lawyers are charged a premium in insurance coverage, and why we see so many foreign trained real estate lawyers in law society proceedings. 

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Yogurt Baron
6 hours ago, luckycharm said:

What is your LSAT and GPA?

How can this possibly be relevant to what the OP is asking about?

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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer
8 minutes ago, Yogurt Baron said:

How can this possibly be relevant to what the OP is asking about?

Luckycharms needs to take any chance he can get to predict someone's law school admissions chances. 

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PulpFiction
  • Lawyer
1 hour ago, Avatar Aang said:

There is a common misconception in your post that you only go to law school for financial gain. If money is your primary or sole driving factor, there are easier ways than a law degree. There are a ton of real estate and mortgage agents making more money than lawyers. Would I see these people as being more successful than a crown prosecutor that makes 80k? No. Do I think foreign trained lawyers who are making a killing as entrepreneurs, as being more successful than my peers on Bay Street who paid their dues and will likely have better careers in the long run? No. There are a lot of people in this profession that make less money who I think have very impressive profiles. Obviously, how we deem a successful person in this business is subjective, but I know a number of people on this forum share my view and left lucrative careers, or did not pursue things like corporate law, because they wanted to do other, more meaningful things with their lives. It sounds like the OP already has a decent job right now, too.

It's frankly dangerous advice to say a foreign trained lawyer should even set up their own shop after getting called. I too know many foreign trained lawyers that have done this, and while they make good money, I feel sorry for their clients. Many of these lawyers are incompetent because they have not learned the Canadian law properly and/or received proper training. You'll see many of their names come up over the years in law society disciplinary proceedings. Many of these lawyers target vulnerable clients and milk all the money they can get from them. No, we should certainly not be labeling these as "successful lawyers."

@CleanHands would know more about the criminal and immigration aspects, but I have rarely seen good criminal and immigration lawyers in the profession that went to a foreign law school. And don't even get me started on real estate...there is a reason why real estate lawyers are charged a premium in insurance coverage, and why we see so many foreign trained real estate lawyers in law society proceedings. 

 

I don't think, nor did I say, that one should only go to law school for financial gain. I do see it as a measure of success, though. I was simply making an observation that the most successful lawyers I know, and I clarified I meant financially successful not necessarily the most intelligent legal minds (which I can't confidently speak on for these few individuals), were foreign-trained. That still holds true for me. The rest of your rambling about lucrative careers and doing meaningful things with one's life - cool. Former banker turned criminal lawyer, here. I get it, there's more to life than money. I don't necessarily think the corporate guys are doing less important or meaningful work - and not everyone here will agree - but I see the purpose they serve in society, though it doesn't look as impactful from the outside looking in. 

You not thinking the mortgage agent or real estate guy is more successful than the Crown is your opinion, and that's good for you. There's context to consider. A former banker friend of mine, top business school education, left his role to become a real estate agent. Made significantly more than most Crowns and lawyers ever will, in his old role, and does in his current role, too. He's very intelligent and good at what he does, and he also has freedom I wish I had. I'm just not that good at sales as he is, or maybe I'd take the plunge, too. I see him as, and probably even more, successful than myself and many of my lawyer buddies. This description of success is factoring in income, intelligence, accomplishments, character, and more. You probably wouldn't consider him successful. Maybe you think lawyers are smarter and more important than they really are. Or you're weighing intelligence too heavily in your determination of success, resulting in occupations perceived as being held by those of lesser-intelligence (realtors/mortgage brokers) as being less successful, when in reality it isn't that clear cut. 'These people' come from many backgrounds and I promise you, many are more successful than you'll ever be, and not just from a financial perspective, lawyer guy. 

Frankly, regarding opening up practice after getting called, I don't think it's dangerous the way I put it. I said it's an option, which it is. I don't really think a Canadian-trained lawyer is all that much more prepared to set up a practice than a foreign-trained lawyer, and they do it at all the time. The Canadian lawyers screw up plenty and figure it out with appropriate mentorship and time.  I think the articling experience will make a significant difference, along with motivation to learn the particular area of law and ask for help when it's needed.  I also gave a warning that the chances of having the success that these few foreign-trained lawyers have is low and unlikely. Not sure what your concern is here. I'm not telling every foreign-trained lawyer to do this, I'm saying it's an option - a risky one, and that they should ensure they're confident with the law and their business acumen such that they avoid your next concern - screwing over clients. 

Any lawyer that doesn't properly advocate for their client's interests, and/or milks vulnerable clients for all they can get, is a scumbag. I never called that type of lawyer successful, but it's good that we're on the same page about that. It isn't just foreign-trained lawyers doing this, plenty of Canadian trained lawyers are shit and screw over their clients on a regular basis. Plenty. Whoever is doing it is wrong, and they should be disciplined accordingly. This doesn't change my view that in the right circumstances, factoring in risk and the likely reality, it is an option to open one's own practice after getting called (more realistic in some practice areas than others).  

I have met several good criminal lawyers that went the foreign route. I've spoken to these individuals and I work with some, too. My firm hired some of them - they're good at what they do. Good not only to their clients, but good at running their practice and earning. 

Edited by PulpFiction
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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer
26 minutes ago, PulpFiction said:

 

I don't think, nor did I say, that one should only go to law school for financial gain. I do see it as a measure of success, though. I was simply making an observation that the most successful lawyers I know, and I clarified I meant financially successful not necessarily the most intelligent legal minds (which I can't confidently speak on for these few individuals), were foreign-trained. That still holds true for me. The rest of your rambling about lucrative careers and doing meaningful things with one's life - cool. Former banker turned criminal lawyer, here. I get it, there's more to life than money. I don't necessarily think the corporate guys are doing less important or meaningful work - and not everyone here will agree - but I see the purpose they serve in society, though it doesn't look as impactful from the outside looking in. 

You not thinking the mortgage agent or real estate guy is more successful than the Crown is your opinion, and that's good for you. There's context to consider. A former banker friend of mine, top business school education, left his role to become a real estate agent. Made significantly more than most Crowns and lawyers ever will, in his old role, and does in his current role, too. He's very intelligent and good at what he does, and he also has freedom I wish I had. I'm just not that good at sales as he is, or maybe I'd take the plunge, too. I see him as, and probably even more, successful than myself and many of my lawyer buddies. This description of success is factoring in income, intelligence, accomplishments, character, and more. You probably wouldn't consider him successful. Maybe you think lawyers are smarter and more important than they really are. Or you're weighing intelligence too heavily in your determination of success, resulting in occupations perceived as being held by those of lesser-intelligence (realtors/mortgage brokers) as being less successful, when in reality it isn't that clear cut. 'These people' come from many backgrounds and I promise you, many are more successful than you'll ever be, and not just from a financial perspective, lawyer guy. 

Frankly, regarding opening up practice after getting called, I don't think it's dangerous the way I put it. I said it's an option, which it is. I don't really think a Canadian-trained lawyer is all that much more prepared to set up a practice than a foreign-trained lawyer, and they do it at all the time. The Canadian lawyers screw up plenty and figure it out with appropriate mentorship and time.  I think the articling experience will make a significant difference, along with motivation to learn the particular area of law and ask for help when it's needed.  I also gave a warning that the chances of having the success that these few foreign-trained lawyers have is low and unlikely. Not sure what your concern is here. I'm not telling every foreign-trained lawyer to do this, I'm saying it's an option - a risky one, and that they should ensure they're confident with the law and their business acumen such that they avoid your next concern - screwing over clients. 

Any lawyer that doesn't properly advocate for their client's interests, and/or milks vulnerable clients for all they can get, is a scumbag. I never called that type of lawyer successful, but it's good that we're on the same page about that. It isn't just foreign-trained lawyers doing this, plenty of Canadian trained lawyers are shit and screw over their clients on a regular basis. Plenty. Whoever is doing it is wrong, and they should be disciplined accordingly. This doesn't change my view that in the right circumstances, factoring in risk and the likely reality, it is an option to open one's own practice after getting called (more realistic in some practice areas than others).  

I have met several good criminal lawyers that went the foreign route. I've spoken to these individuals and I work with some, too. My firm hired some of them - they're good at what they do. Good not only to their clients, but good at running their practice and earning. 

I don't recommend Canadian lawyers to open up their own shop right out of law school either, and most of my peers that did went into areas like business, technology, civil litigation, and wills and estates. You mentioned this as an option in your post but didn't write a caveat that it wasn't a good path to pursue without the right training and mentorship, which I think is important to mention.

No doubt, I have met many real estate and mortgage agents that make a shit ton of more money than me. I still don't think they are more "successful" than lawyers on average - in the sense that, yes, I absolutely believe lawyers play a more important role in society, and are generally more accomplished when factoring in income, intelligence, character, etc. There are exceptions everywhere, but the average real estate/mortgage agent is not more "successful" than the average lawyer, in my opinion. I have many friends in this area who make good money and have won awards as some of the top agents in the country, and they only went into it because their original career paths didn't pan out for them for whatever reason - money, interest, burnout, barrier to entry (many of them wanted to go to law school and didn't get in). It's not difficult being a good salesperson if you are active on social media and have a network to tap into. There is a woman on my Instagram that is super hot and always flashing pictures of herself at some beach resort or bar, and she gets a lot of clients. I have random real estate/mortgage agents adding me on LinkedIn and trying to sell me their services all the time. It's a volume business, so if you have some social skills, are extroverted, decent-looking, and have a network to tap into, it isn't difficult to bring in the clients. Sure, this may be the same for many lawyers as well, but maybe because my lawyer circle is so successful and attended top schools and/or have great jobs (and are in a position to get to the top in their respective fields), my perception is skewed. 

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PulpFiction
  • Lawyer
23 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

I don't recommend Canadian lawyers to open up their own shop right out of law school either, and most of my peers that did went into areas like business, technology, civil litigation, and wills and estates. You mentioned this as an option in your post but didn't write a caveat that it wasn't a good path to pursue without the right training and mentorship, which I think is important to mention.

No doubt, I have met many real estate and mortgage agents that make a shit ton of more money than me. I still don't think they are more "successful" than lawyers on average - in the sense that, yes, I absolutely believe lawyers play a more important role in society, and are generally more accomplished when factoring in income, intelligence, character, etc. There are exceptions everywhere, but the average real estate/mortgage agent is not more "successful" than the average lawyer, in my opinion. I have many friends in this area who make good money and have won awards as some of the top agents in the country, and they only went into it because their original career paths didn't pan out for them for whatever reason - money, interest, burnout, barrier to entry (many of them wanted to go to law school and didn't get in). It's not difficult being a good salesperson if you are active on social media and have a network to tap into. There is a woman on my Instagram that is super hot and always flashing pictures of herself at some beach resort or bar, and she gets a lot of clients. I have random real estate/mortgage agents adding me on LinkedIn and trying to sell me their services all the time. It's a volume business, so if you have some social skills, are extroverted, decent-looking, and have a network to tap into, it isn't difficult to bring in the clients. Sure, this may be the same for many lawyers as well, but maybe because my lawyer circle is so successful and attended top schools and/or have great jobs (and are in a position to get to the top in their respective fields), my perception is skewed. 

I said if they think they can figure the law and business part out, it could potentially be an option. What do you think understanding the law and business part entails? The right training and mentorship, no? Even then, I said it comes with significant risks and outlined the likelihood of success - which is not great. When you replied with your concerns, I expanded my thoughts. I did address it. 

You didn't say 'on average'. You simply said you wouldn't find 'these people' as successful as Crowns. If you meant that lawyers, on average, are more successful than mortgage brokers/realtors, then it's probably important to mention that, as to not look like a complete asshole. 

I can tell you sat with the cool kids in law school. 

Now I'm being an asshole. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with all you've said, but that's cool. Good luck.

 

Edited by PulpFiction
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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer
3 minutes ago, PulpFiction said:

I said if they think they can figure the law and business part out, it could potentially be an option. What do you think understanding the law and business part entails? The right training and mentorship, no? Even then, I said it comes with significant risks and outlined the likelihood of success - which is not great. When you replied with your concerns, I expanded my thoughts. I did address it. 

You didn't say 'on average'. You simply said you wouldn't find 'these people' as successful as Crowns. If you meant that lawyers, on average, are more successful than mortgage brokers/realtors, then it's probably important to mention that, as to not look like a complete asshole. 

I can tell you sat with the cool kids in law school. 

Now I'm being an asshole. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with all you've said, but that's cool. Good luck.

 

I don't know why you are so riled up about this, lol. Maybe people like @CleanHands have spoiled my perception of Crowns, but I certainly think what Crowns do is more impressive and important than every real estate/mortgage agent I know. I'm fine with looking like a complete asshole by saying this. I stand by it. I was generally friendly with everyone in law school and didn't approach it like some high school cliche thing. I am not sure what that has anything to do with the discussion we are having. 

 Opinions differ. 

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PulpFiction
  • Lawyer
13 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

I don't know why you are so riled up about this, lol. Maybe people like @CleanHands have spoiled my perception of Crowns, but I certainly think what Crowns do is more impressive and important than every real estate/mortgage agent I know. I'm fine with looking like a complete asshole by saying this. I stand by it. I was generally friendly with everyone in law school and didn't approach it like some high school cliche thing. I am not sure what that has anything to do with the discussion we are having. 

 Opinions differ. 

Not riled up, just think you're saying some stupid things. But that's okay, I could be way off. Also, I think what Crowns do is extremely important, I never said it wasn't. As a defence lawyer, I especially appreciate what they do in ensuring a fair outcome for participants of the justice system. Due to my interests in criminal law throughout law school, I'm friends with many, many law students turned Crown Prosecutor, country-wide (probably even in @CleanHandsoffice if he's at a big BC office).  I respect them. IMO, that doesn't mean by default, they're more successful than every realtor/mortgage broker. They might serve a more influential and purposeful role in society, but that alone doesn't make them more successful. 

I don't think I disagree with what he said regarding realtors being some of the most useless people on the planet - I feel that way at times because I can handle the transaction without them, saving a shit ton of cash. So what if either of us, or all three of us think the job is useless? If a person works as a realtor, that doesn't mean the person can't be intelligent or have other attributes of a successful person. They could be an extremely successful person in many aspects of life, and in their role as a realtor, and be more successful than some lawyers. See how that works? Their job doesn't have to be their single defining feature. And even if it was, to some, that balling realtor is way more successful than the lawyer who plays such an important role in society. 

We aren't going anywhere with this.  Let's call it. 

Edited by PulpFiction
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Avatar Aang
  • Lawyer
19 minutes ago, PulpFiction said:

Not riled up, just think you're saying some stupid things. But that's okay, I could be way off. Also, I think what Crowns do is extremely important, I never said it wasn't. As a defence lawyer, I especially appreciate what they do in ensuring a fair outcome for participants of the justice system. Due to my interests in criminal law throughout law school, I'm friends with many, many law students turned Crown Prosecutor, country-wide (probably even in @CleanHandsoffice if he's at a big BC office).  I respect them. IMO, that doesn't mean by default, they're more successful than every realtor/mortgage broker. They might serve a more influential and purposeful role in society, but that alone doesn't make them more successful. 

I don't think I disagree with what he said regarding realtors being some of the most useless people on the planet - I feel that way at times because I can handle the transaction without them, saving a shit ton of cash. So what if either of us, or all three of us think the job is useless? If a person works as a realtor, that doesn't mean the person can't be intelligent or have other attributes of a successful person. They could be an extremely successful person in many aspects of life, and in their role as a realtor, and be more successful than some lawyers. See how that works? Their job doesn't have to be their single defining feature. And even if it was, to some, that balling realtor is way more successful than the lawyer who plays such an important role in society. 

We aren't going anywhere with this.  Let's call it. 

I agree with everything you wrote here. The thing is, this discussion started with us debating about whether we thought lawyers or real estate/mortgage agents were more successful. Just based on the job alone, and the barriers to entry, education levels, importance to society, etc., I felt that lawyers/Crown were more successful. I am not driven by money and place higher value on importance to society, so that also skews my opinion here. I agree that the job alone does not have to define someone and a lot of different factors go into determining success. I'm glad we had this discussion, because I'm going to talk to my real estate agent friends about this to really figure out my thoughts on this topic. 

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PulpFiction
  • Lawyer
1 minute ago, Avatar Aang said:

I agree with everything you wrote here. The thing is, this discussion started with us debating about whether we thought lawyers or real estate/mortgage agents were more successful. Just based on the job alone, and the barriers to entry, education levels, importance to society, etc., I felt that lawyers/Crown were more successful. I am not driven by money and place higher value on importance to society, so that also skews my opinion here. I agree that the job alone does not have to define someone and a lot of different factors go into determining success. I'm glad we had this discussion, because I'm going to talk to my real estate agent friends about this to really figure out my thoughts on this topic. 

I was being overly aggressive at times. I'm blaming that on an upcoming trial, which has me 'on' all the time. You're entitled to your opinion and take mine with a grain of salt. Good luck dude 

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Xxyz
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10 hours ago, luckycharm said:

What is your B2 and L2 per OLSAS?

Probably low 3s, but if you don’t mind I’d rather keep this feed about foreign schools rather than the feasibility of the Canadian market. I was hoping for a more… focused discussion on the advisability of going to law school internationally if I chose to live somewhere else for a while.  It’s why I kept stats out of it initially.

 

 

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Xxyz
  • Applicant
13 hours ago, Hegdis said:

Just own the fact that you want to travel. Telling other people you are attending law school might distract them into thinking you have direction and purpose in life, but it’s pretty clear that you really just want travel and good weather. 

So take a year or two and get it out of your system. Then if you want to practise law in Canada, apply to a Canadian law school. 

Hey man, my top choice of countries would be England… so we can reasonably strike good weather off the list of motivations! Although I can’t agree with you that wanting new life experiences is mutually exclusive from wanting to attend law school, and practice law. The world’s a big, wide, exciting place, and I’ve always thought people are better off for exiting their comfort zone of the bubble they grew up in. Especially if you’re a country bumpkin like me... haha. Also travelling and living somewhere afford different experiences. Hence the appeal of killing two birds with one stone.

That said, I see your point. And it may well be what I decided to do.

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Xxyz
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7 hours ago, CheeseToast said:

Gee, I wonder if this guy comes from cash.

Mad stacks. It’s why I grew up on well water, have worked since I was 14, and was weirded out by the need for curtains when I moved to a city for university. On the bright side, I can line dance like a MOFO 😉

I’m not loaded either, and the cost of law school (foreign or domestic) is a significant consideration. That said, I do have some assets that I could sell, and market-wise now would be a good time to do that. So if it were the right decision I could probably* afford to go abroad without accruing crippling levels of debt. I simply put that caveat on the initial post because I’m not asking strangers on an internet forum for advice on my finances. 

*Who knows what’ll happen in the world over the next year. Strange times. 

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Telephantasm
2 hours ago, Xxyz said:

Although I can’t agree with you that wanting new life experiences is mutually exclusive from wanting to attend law school, and practice law.

I mean, that's not even remotely what @Hegdis said. The closest possible construction of what Hegdis said to this would be that having new life experiences at the schools in which you have indicated interest is fairly mutually exclusive with having a successful legal career in Canada that you can navigate with reasonable facility.

You can have plenty of new life experiences at any law school. I have. I don't think anyone would suggest that such experiences are "mutually exclusive" from wanting to attend law school. 

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CheeseToast
  • Law Student
3 hours ago, Xxyz said:

I simply put that caveat on the initial post because I’m not asking strangers on an internet forum for advice on my finances. 

Finances (ie cost) are the most important consideration for many (most?) applicants. You made a post seeking advice about applying to foreign schools which cost multiple times more than attending a local school. 

3 hours ago, Xxyz said:

It’s why I grew up on well water, have worked since I was 14, and was weirded out by the need for curtains when I moved to a city for university.

As did I, minus the curtains part. Those circumstances and coming from money aren’t mutually exclusive.

Seems to me you just don’t want to go somewhere like windsor, lakehead, or ryerson, though all of those would be far superior options to going abroad. Hell, with your L2 you stand a decent shot at most of the L2 schools. 

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