Reference Letter Help

[m_kk637]

I have found a prof who is willing to write a reference letter and they have requested a transcript. However, in my first 2 years of university, I did poorly which I made up for in subsequent years. I was wondering, if I should create a note of that in the email. I was just confused as to what I should write down and am worried about what they will think. 

[goonersfc]

This sort of is 1 reason why people suggest asking for reference letters from those professors with whom you share more of a relationship, than just academics. My two cents would be make a note of your modest academic performances in your email, with context. Maybe also take the time to highlight any additional achievements which might help to alleviate the effect of those grades. 

[GreyDude]

On 8/26/2021 at 4:04 PM, m_kk637 said:

I have found a prof who is willing to write a reference letter and they have requested a transcript. However, in my first 2 years of university, I did poorly which I made up for in subsequent years. I was wondering, if I should create a note of that in the email. I was just confused as to what I should write down and am worried about what they will think. 

If you didn't do poorly in that prof's classes, then you don't need to mention it. Normally the prof will look only at how you did in their class, and give their impressions of you as a student (and if they know you well, as a person). You don't want to cloud that by pointing out that you're not as great as they think you are.

[Thrive92]

On 8/26/2021 at 1:04 PM, m_kk637 said:

I have found a prof who is willing to write a reference letter and they have requested a transcript. However, in my first 2 years of university, I did poorly which I made up for in subsequent years. I was wondering, if I should create a note of that in the email. I was just confused as to what I should write down and am worried about what they will think. 

I would recommend you to ask another professor to write the letter of reference for you. Although some may disagree, I think it is a little too much for a professor to ask for your transcript when being asked to write a letter of reference. The fact that the professor wants to judge you based on your academic merit outside of his classes that you took in order to pick up a pen (or a keyboard) to vouch for you in a letter seems odd and slightly obnoxious.

[Ben]

38 minutes ago, Thrive92 said:

I would recommend you to ask another professor to write the letter of reference for you. Although some may disagree, I think it is a little too much for a professor to ask for your transcript when being asked to write a letter of reference. The fact that the professor wants to judge you based on your academic merit outside of his classes that you took in order to pick up a pen (or a keyboard) to vouch for you in a letter seems odd and slightly obnoxious.

Couldn’t disagree more. This is a completely standard request, so much so that I normally send my transcript to professors without being prompted when I initially ask for a LoR. 
 

You should feel free to say that you’re making an effort to highlight your upward trajectory in your applications and you hope your transcript reflects that.

[Lawllapalooza]

40 minutes ago, Thrive92 said:

I would recommend you to ask another professor to write the letter of reference for you. Although some may disagree, I think it is a little too much for a professor to ask for your transcript when being asked to write a letter of reference. The fact that the professor wants to judge you based on your academic merit outside of his classes that you took in order to pick up a pen (or a keyboard) to vouch for you in a letter seems odd and slightly obnoxious.

Every (and yes, I do mean every) professor who I have asked to write a reference letter for me has requested my transcripts. This has included three law professors. Many have also requested my resume. You may not like the practice but it is far from uncommon. 

[Thrive92]

Just now, Ben said:

Couldn’t disagree more. This is a completely standard request, so much so that I normally send my transcript to professors without being prompted when I initially ask for a LoR. 
 

You should feel free to say that you’re making an effort to highlight your upward trajectory in your applications and you hope your transcript reflects that.

 

Just now, Lawllapalooza said:

Every (and yes, I do mean every) professor who I have asked to write a reference letter for me has requested my transcripts. This has included three law professors. Many have also requested my resume. You may not like the practice but it is far from uncommon. 

I genuinely did not know that this was so common; I remember asking three professors for my letters of references, and one politely told me that she does not know me enough as I only took one class with her, and the other two professors kindly agreed without even mentioning any transcript.

Seeing as how providing transcripts to professor referees are so common, I can now say without a doubt that this requirement of asking professors for a letter of reference when you are literally one student out of hundreds in that class that the professors teach is an unnecessary and frankly a dumb practice that should have been scrapped long before the 21st century. Thanks to both of you for clarifying my stance on this moronic aspect of law school admissions.

[BlockedQuebecois]

You shouldn’t be asking profs who only know you as one out of hundreds of students in the class for a reference letter. You should be asking profs who know you well and can speak to your academic abilities and other facets of your life.

An experienced referee who wants to write you a strong reference will usually ask for additional documentation (transcripts, a resume, etc.) because it lets them write you a much better letter. 

A professor who knows you well but has only had you for two classes can only honestly write something like this: 

Quote

BQ is a strong student who displayed advanced knowledge of the material in my Chemistry 200 and 201 courses. 

With a transcript, however, they can honestly write: 

Quote

BQ is a strong student who displayed advanced knowledge of the material in my Chemistry 200 and 201 courses. In addition, BQ’s transcript reveals a history of excellent academic achievement in varied and intellectually challenging courses at Canlaw University. 

Add in a resume with scholarship information, and they can say: 

Quote

BQ is a strong student who displayed advanced knowledge of the material in my Chemistry 200 and 201 courses. In addition, BQ’s transcript reveals a history of excellent academic achievement in varied and intellectually challenging courses at Canlaw University. This strong academic achievement culminated in BQ winning the Morgans LLP prize for academic excellence, the university’s top honour for graduating students. 

The more information you can give your referees, the better they will be able to advocate for you. That’s why people recommend putting together an information packet for your references, and why experienced referees will ask for information if you haven’t volunteered it. 

[artsydork]

2 hours ago, Thrive92 said:

I would recommend you to ask another professor to write the letter of reference for you. Although some may disagree, I think it is a little too much for a professor to ask for your transcript when being asked to write a letter of reference. The fact that the professor wants to judge you based on your academic merit outside of his classes that you took in order to pick up a pen (or a keyboard) to vouch for you in a letter seems odd and slightly obnoxious.

Every prof asked for my transcript when I was getting references back in the day. I mean, my cegep profs didn't but that's because my program was small and they knew my grades. In uni, all 4 of my prospective profs asked.  You don't know the reason why the prof is asking - it could be to see sequence of courses, general academic trend, to have your legal name in spelling, or because some references ask the referees to score the student against their classmates. I also come from a university program where profs actually graded my work, so they knew my grades. Some programs have anonymous marking so a prof may not even know what your actual grade was.
 

OP, listen to @GreyDude's point here. 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by artsydork

[CleanHands]

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You shouldn’t be asking profs who only know you as one out of hundreds of students in the class for a reference letter. You should be asking profs who know you well and can speak to your academic abilities and other facets of your life.

If that were true many of us wouldn't be able to provide academic references at all as we didn't develop any relationships with professors in undergrad.

FWIW I was very much just a nameless, faceless, generic student who got an A in my referees' classes where my law school applications were concerned and it didn't seem to matter.

[BlockedQuebecois]

5 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

If that were true many of us wouldn't be able to provide academic references at all as we didn't develop any relationships with professors in undergrad.

FWIW I was very much just a nameless, faceless, generic student who got an A in my referees' classes where my law school applications were concerned and it didn't seem to matter.

I said “should” for a reason, and that’s because we’re talking about the ideal here. If all you were was a nameless, faceless student to all possible academic references, you will obviously have to ask one of them for a reference. You don’t have any other choice. 

But if you have the choice between a professor you have a strong relationship with and one who thinks maybe they remember you from when you might have served them coffee last week, you should pick the one with the strong relationship. 

[GreyDude]

2 hours ago, artsydork said:

Every prof asked for my transcript when I was getting references back in the day. I mean, my cegep profs didn't but that's because my program was small and they knew my grades. In uni, all 4 of my prospective profs asked.  You don't know the reason why the prof is asking - it could be to see sequence of courses, general academic trend, to have your legal name in spelling, or because some references ask the referees to score the student against their classmates. I also come from a university program where profs actually graded my work, so they knew my grades. Some programs have anonymous marking so a prof may not even know what your actual grade was.

 

I have often asked for transcripts. In my case, it's mostly laziness:  I don't necessarily want to have to look up the student's results myself, especially if it has been a while since I saw them. But I also rarely give references for students I don't know pretty well, so I don't always ask. @artsydork makes a series of good points here. But OP, to repeat myself, as long as this is one of of those B2 classes, I really don't think that you should be pointing out your failings to the prof.

I have never commented on how someone did in a class other than my own, and while it certainly takes all kinds, I doubt that many would. Also, don't forget that when your prof agrees to give you a reference to law school, there is a certain pride in seeing you succeed. Obviously there will be exceptions to this rule, but generally, your referees don't want you to  fail, and they're not looking for bad things to say about you — on the contrary, they're looking for good things to say. Yes, there are those who just don't care. But if you have chosen well, your referee isn't one of those. 

2 hours ago, artsydork said:

OP, listen to @GreyDude's point here. 

Yeah! I'm wise, dammit!

😎

Edited August 30, 2021 by GreyDude

[MapleLeafs]

For what it's worth, I asked prof's for reference letters where I was just a regular person who performed well in their class. Although I didn't see the reference letters (since they are confidential), I assume they were good since I got into multiple schools so don't put too much weight into them. GPA/LSAT are worth much more 

[OntheVerge]

I think asking for transcripts is pretty common. The only professors who haven't asked me for transcripts  are the professors who I had for multiple courses over the years or had a professional relationship with (R.A. work, honours advisor, etc). I assumed they knew me well enough based on my work that I wasn't bombing other courses or slacking off, and in some cases (R.A. work at law school), they told me they checked my transcripts before offering me the job. 

Also, I was told by one professor that instead of asking if someone would write me a reference, the question should be "would you feel comfortable writing me a strong reference?". Take it for what it's worth, but I started asking professors that so I'd know I'd get a good reference and not just a mediocre one. I'd rather someone answer "no" and give me a chance to find a different referee.

[GreyDude]

20 hours ago, OntheVerge said:

Also, I was told by one professor that instead of asking if someone would write me a reference, the question should be "would you feel comfortable writing me a strong reference?". Take it for what it's worth, but I started asking professors that so I'd know I'd get a good reference and not just a mediocre one. I'd rather someone answer "no" and give me a chance to find a different referee.

This is a very good suggestion.