OCIs to In-Firms

[HarveyRoss]

Over the past few months I've learned a lot about the 17-minute OCI process. I feel as though I've learned almost everything I need to know about OCIs, whereas in-firms are still ambiguous to me. I'm interested in hearing more about how in-firms work e.g., Day 1 vs Day 2, length of in-firms, strategies for obtaining an in-firm, how many students get to this stage vs land positions (although I know this is more firm dependent). Please feel free to share any anecdotes (beyond my inquiries above too). 

Thanks.

[lawkward]

As you mentioned, this is all very firm dependent. But from my own experience, I can speak for Bay Street firms as I most applied to Bay Street firms only. In-firms go on for three days, and if you do progress to the 3rd day, these would certainly be the fastest 3 days of you life. In case you don't (like most of the people who will appear), time will somehow be stranded. At that stage, it's important to remember OCIs are not the end of it by any means, and a lot of good firms will always still be looking for talent.

The interview style of the firms during in-firms will be much different than the OCIs. The exact number of interviews will vary from firm to firm, mostly this number is between 2 to 4. Although I have heard of people who were called for a 5th time during the three days. The common adage goes, during the first day, you sell yourself to the firm, and if you're successful, by the second day, the firm firm would be selling itself to you.

Day 1- You'd be asked to spend around 90-120 minutes with each firm, which sound way too long, but trust me, it will be over before you know it. During this time, you'll be interacting with different set of people from the firm, and the exact make-up of the interviewing panels would vary from firm to firm. Some would be 1-on-1, some would have panels of 2 or 3, usually lasting about 30-40 minutes each. Most firms will make sure that these panels have people from different hierarchal structures of the firm- equity partners, partners, associates. Some would even ask their students or someone from HR to interview you. The biggest mistake you can make at this stage is lower you guard against students or admin staff. It's as important for you to "impress" them.

Ordinarily, you would also have one or two students or associates who would be acting as your host/ guides during you interview, but I don't see it happening during this year's virtual process. Personally, I feel that's a good thing- given you a few less people to impress and make small talk, but I can totally see how some would view it otherwise.

I have heard people mention that these interviews are "tougher" than OCIs, or they "get tougher" if the firm isn't convinced on you by the end of the first day. I don't buy it. Obviously, as the firms narrow down their shortlists, the mathematical probability of you making it to a firm reduces. But that doesn't mean you need to change anything, honestly. I don't think that's even possible. It's a same list of questions that different people will keep asking you, and you would need to have the same strategy/ stories/ pitches that you have used before.

DAY 2- As I mentioned earlier, by this time, either the firm will start selling itself to you, or would be testing you further to see if you meet their prototype or not. Make sure that you decipher it quickly and play along accordingly. A clear give away here is to see who is talking more- if you realise that the interviewers are doing most of the talking, most of your work is done here and just don't do anything that might screw this up. Otherwise, just treat this as the first day, and get back to the grind.

Day 3- By day 3, most firms have already made their decisions. If you are there for day three, it's either because the firm has a bit more convincing (to you) to do, or it's making a call between you and 1 or 2 other candidates. I don't know if I have anything different to add here- just follow your usual schtick- smile, express your interest in the firm clearly, stick to your stories and don't do anything that screws it up- and you'll hopefully be good.

My word of advice, based on my own experience:

- Take this process seriously for the time that you are actually in it- if you don't make it all the way through, or once it's finished and you do land a position, get over it and move on with your lives. There are other things in life/ law school that are more important.

- Do not over analyse things. I know this is easier said than done. But don't make of a partner's reply (or lack thereof) to your thank-you email something, it is not. 

- Talk to as many people as you can before the in firms. 

- If you are appearing for more than 1 in-firm, schedule them carefully. Keep a considerable time gap between each of your interview, so that you have time to reflect. Do not let the process rush you. I imagine people might understate the importance of this factor given the process is online this year, but make sure you have time to step away from you machine, have a coffee, etc.

Of course, my reply doesn't capture the tons of anxiety, elation, panic, jealousy and other emotions that come with the process. By the end of it, you'd remember this as an enjoyable experience, or look back on it as a nightmare. Either way, things would get back to normal at law school soon and you'd be a lawyer anyway. But as someone on a LS.ca once said "whoever came up with this system was wild". 

[HarveyRoss]

1 hour ago, lawkward said:

As you mentioned, this is all very firm dependent. But from my own experience, I can speak for Bay Street firms as I most applied to Bay Street firms only. In-firms go on for three days, and if you do progress to the 3rd day, these would certainly be the fastest 3 days of you life. In case you don't (like most of the people who will appear), time will somehow be stranded. At that stage, it's important to remember OCIs are not the end of it by any means, and a lot of good firms will always still be looking for talent.

The interview style of the firms during in-firms will be much different than the OCIs. The exact number of interviews will vary from firm to firm, mostly this number is between 2 to 4. Although I have heard of people who were called for a 5th time during the three days. The common adage goes, during the first day, you sell yourself to the firm, and if you're successful, by the second day, the firm firm would be selling itself to you.

Day 1- You'd be asked to spend around 90-120 minutes with each firm, which sound way too long, but trust me, it will be over before you know it. During this time, you'll be interacting with different set of people from the firm, and the exact make-up of the interviewing panels would vary from firm to firm. Some would be 1-on-1, some would have panels of 2 or 3, usually lasting about 30-40 minutes each. Most firms will make sure that these panels have people from different hierarchal structures of the firm- equity partners, partners, associates. Some would even ask their students or someone from HR to interview you. The biggest mistake you can make at this stage is lower you guard against students or admin staff. It's as important for you to "impress" them.

Ordinarily, you would also have one or two students or associates who would be acting as your host/ guides during you interview, but I don't see it happening during this year's virtual process. Personally, I feel that's a good thing- given you a few less people to impress and make small talk, but I can totally see how some would view it otherwise.

I have heard people mention that these interviews are "tougher" than OCIs, or they "get tougher" if the firm isn't convinced on you by the end of the first day. I don't buy it. Obviously, as the firms narrow down their shortlists, the mathematical probability of you making it to a firm reduces. But that doesn't mean you need to change anything, honestly. I don't think that's even possible. It's a same list of questions that different people will keep asking you, and you would need to have the same strategy/ stories/ pitches that you have used before.

DAY 2- As I mentioned earlier, by this time, either the firm will start selling itself to you, or would be testing you further to see if you meet their prototype or not. Make sure that you decipher it quickly and play along accordingly. A clear give away here is to see who is talking more- if you realise that the interviewers are doing most of the talking, most of your work is done here and just don't do anything that might screw this up. Otherwise, just treat this as the first day, and get back to the grind.

Day 3- By day 3, most firms have already made their decisions. If you are there for day three, it's either because the firm has a bit more convincing (to you) to do, or it's making a call between you and 1 or 2 other candidates. I don't know if I have anything different to add here- just follow your usual schtick- smile, express your interest in the firm clearly, stick to your stories and don't do anything that screws it up- and you'll hopefully be good.

My word of advice, based on my own experience:

- Take this process seriously for the time that you are actually in it- if you don't make it all the way through, or once it's finished and you do land a position, get over it and move on with your lives. There are other things in life/ law school that are more important.

- Do not over analyse things. I know this is easier said than done. But don't make of a partner's reply (or lack thereof) to your thank-you email something, it is not. 

- Talk to as many people as you can before the in firms. 

- If you are appearing for more than 1 in-firm, schedule them carefully. Keep a considerable time gap between each of your interview, so that you have time to reflect. Do not let the process rush you. I imagine people might understate the importance of this factor given the process is online this year, but make sure you have time to step away from you machine, have a coffee, etc.

Of course, my reply doesn't capture the tons of anxiety, elation, panic, jealousy and other emotions that come with the process. By the end of it, you'd remember this as an enjoyable experience, or look back on it as a nightmare. Either way, things would get back to normal at law school soon and you'd be a lawyer anyway. But as someone on a LS.ca once said "whoever came up with this system was wild". 

This is exactly the information I was seeking. Thanks for responding and being so thorough!

[Swami]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:37 PM, lawkward said:

- Talk to as many people as you can before the in firms. 

 

a little confused on this point - isn't there a blackout period right before in-firms? Should you be talking to people after OCIs then?

[JustinCredible]

recruitment activities are not allowed. You asking questions about the firm is unlikely to be seen as a recruitment activity from what I had heard from recruiters. Usually the "blackout period" where no communication is permitted is the 2 or 3 hours on before call time. 

3 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

recruitment activities are not allowed. You asking questions about the firm is unlikely to be seen as a recruitment activity. Usually the "blackout period" where no communication is permitted is the 2 or 3 hours on before call time. 

Edit* This is not legal advice nor opinion 

Edited September 18, 2021 by JustinCredible
missed part of the sentence