Have a UT Law related question? Ask!

[aurora borealis]

I got accepted to U of T in February and am seriously considering attending.

Where do law students typically live? How far out from the university is reasonable to spend commuting? I own a car if that makes a difference (and would prefer to bring it with me if feasible). Conversely, do you know anyone who lived in Graduate House and had good things to say about it?

How easy is it to get involved with things like DLS as a first year?

What class did you find to be most difficult in 1L?

What do most people do in the summer between 1L and 2L? How easy is it to get a law-related job (BigLaw or not)? I know many students work as RAs.

 

[cherrytree]

48 minutes ago, aurora borealis said:

Where do law students typically live? How far out from the university is reasonable to spend commuting? I own a car if that makes a difference (and would prefer to bring it with me if feasible). Conversely, do you know anyone who lived in Graduate House and had good things to say about it?

Students typically live close to the campus and close to the law school building. Depending on your budget, there are fancier condo units in the Yorkville neighbourhood and there are cheaper accommodations in older houses in the Annex or Harbord Village neighbourhoods. If you have a car you might want to do the math on gas prices and parking costs and traffic congestion. If you can help it, I would recommend living as close to the law school as possible, having a car doesn't necessarily mean more convenience if you are driving in the city every day (I'm biased in that I hate driving in Toronto). I know people who have lived in Grad House and it seems like a fine place to live, but I'll defer to anyone with first-hand experience.

53 minutes ago, aurora borealis said:

How easy is it to get involved with things like DLS as a first year?

Most 1L extracurricular opportunities are allotted to interested students via a lottery system, you're bound to get something even if you don't get DLS specifically. When I volunteered at DLS as a 1L I just did phone intake, 1Ls aren't usually considered experienced enough to do a lot of substantial clinical work, but if you get lucky you may get more exposure in the specialized landlord and tenant program called TAP something, IIRC they take 1Ls. My info on this is a few years old so if things have changed, other UTLaw students please feel free to correct me

56 minutes ago, aurora borealis said:

What class did you find to be most difficult in 1L?

For me it wasn't so much any singular class as it was the pressure of having to manage 3-4 substantive classes at the same time per semester. It's hard to make sure I'm on top of every class, I wasn't the type of student who could effectively manage to get the top grade in every course, so some prioritizing/sacrificing had to be done.

59 minutes ago, aurora borealis said:

What do most people do in the summer between 1L and 2L? How easy is it to get a law-related job (BigLaw or not)? I know many students work as RAs.

Generally speaking it's not easy to get a law job in your 1L summer, simply because with only 1 year of law school under your belt you are not as experienced as 2Ls looking for summer jobs, but clinics are usually good places to get legal work experience in litigation if you can secure a summer spot (usually a competitive process, and the competition level for 1L BigLaw jobs goes without saying). There are various other types of jobs that the CDO will post on the job board which accept 1L applicants, ranging from in-house employers to public interest fellowships. You can also always get off the beaten path by seeking out jobs on Indeed, LinkedIn etc. that aren't posted on the school job board.

[aurora borealis]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:12 AM, cherrytree said:

Students typically live close to the campus and close to the law school building. Depending on your budget, there are fancier condo units in the Yorkville neighbourhood and there are cheaper accommodations in older houses in the Annex or Harbord Village neighbourhoods. If you have a car you might want to do the math on gas prices and parking costs and traffic congestion. If you can help it, I would recommend living as close to the law school as possible, having a car doesn't necessarily mean more convenience if you are driving in the city every day (I'm biased in that I hate driving in Toronto). I know people who have lived in Grad House and it seems like a fine place to live, but I'll defer to anyone with first-hand experience.

I definitely wasn't planning on driving to campus every day! I was thinking more about whether it would be feasible to live farther out (but still within easy TTC commuting time) in a neighbourhood that really required a car for errands and groceries (I lived in such a neighbourhood in Ottawa while doing my undergrad, when I did not have a car, and going to the grocery store sucked). I've only been to Toronto for standard touristy things so I'm not super familiar with the neighbourhoods yet.

[Peculiar Frond]

5 minutes ago, aurora borealis said:

I definitely wasn't planning on driving to campus every day! I was thinking more about whether it would be feasible to live farther out (but still within easy TTC commuting time) in a neighbourhood that really required a car for errands and groceries (I lived in such a neighbourhood in Ottawa while doing my undergrad, when I did not have a car, and going to the grocery store sucked). I've only been to Toronto for standard touristy things so I'm not super familiar with the neighbourhoods yet.

U of T is at perhaps the most convenient location in the entire city: the intersection of Lines 1 (Yonge-University) and 2 (Bloor-Danforth).  So long as you live close to a subway stop, the commute will be manageable from pretty much anywhere.  As other noted, there are great affordable neighborhoods within walking distance (Harbord, Annex, the Village, etc.), so I wouldn't write off living close to campus straight away.  

[mirrorball]

6 hours ago, aurora borealis said:

I definitely wasn't planning on driving to campus every day! I was thinking more about whether it would be feasible to live farther out (but still within easy TTC commuting time) in a neighbourhood that really required a car for errands and groceries (I lived in such a neighbourhood in Ottawa while doing my undergrad, when I did not have a car, and going to the grocery store sucked). I've only been to Toronto for standard touristy things so I'm not super familiar with the neighbourhoods yet.

This is definitely feasible! I know classmates commute from many neighbourhoods further West, such as Christie Pitts, Roncy, and High Park. Many don't even have/need cars for errands.

On 3/7/2022 at 10:12 AM, cherrytree said:

Most 1L extracurricular opportunities are allotted to interested students via a lottery system, you're bound to get something even if you don't get DLS specifically. When I volunteered at DLS as a 1L I just did phone intake, 1Ls aren't usually considered experienced enough to do a lot of substantial clinical work, but if you get lucky you may get more exposure in the specialized landlord and tenant program called TAP something, IIRC they take 1Ls. My info on this is a few years old so if things have changed, other UTLaw students please feel free to correct me

Things have been a bit different because of the pandemic. This year, only upper-year caseworkers do phone intake. 1Ls are assigned to a caseworker "mentor" to shadow. As cherrytree mentioned, it's not overly substantial, but mentors can have the 1Ls help with research, projects, and that sort of thing. I'm not sure whether 1Ls will go back to doing phone intake in the future or what model DLS will follow going forward. 

On 3/7/2022 at 9:07 AM, aurora borealis said:

What class did you find to be most difficult in 1L?

I'd say contracts and constitutional, because I find the cases most difficult in those classes. I agree it's mostly the overall volume of work that's challenging. 

[tsanami]

Thanks for all the answers so far! How would you say the pandemic has affected classes, events, and extracurriculars this past semester? Would you say it's heading towards normalcy now, or are there still elements lacking in your experience that would have been there pre-pandemic?

[Pecan Boy]

12 hours ago, tsanami said:

Thanks for all the answers so far! How would you say the pandemic has affected classes, events, and extracurriculars this past semester? Would you say it's heading towards normalcy now, or are there still elements lacking in your experience that would have been there pre-pandemic?

Bearing in mind that I was not at UofT pre-pandemic, my sense is that this past fall was somewhat close to normal - most significantly, almost all classes were in person. Big change from last year, which was my 1L year, when 80% of the year was fully remote. The start of this semester was obviously thrown off by Omicron, though we're back largely in person now (maybe to a slightly lesser extent than in the fall). 

As for out-of-school events, we just had a screening of the annual law school comedy sketch show last week in a big movie theatre with probably like 80% of the student body in attendance. We have a formal at the start of April. For context, last year the former was screened for us virtually, and the latter was cancelled. We've also had the weekly bar night ongoing throughout the year, except during Omicron. So we're definitely on a good trajectory.

Assuming you're coming to the school next year, I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't essentially back to normal by then.

[cherrytree]

I graduated in 2021 but from what I've seen on social media and read in Ultra Vires, there's definitely a big push from the school administration to hold classes and extracurriculars in person as much as possible.

17 hours ago, mirrorball said:

Things have been a bit different because of the pandemic. This year, only upper-year caseworkers do phone intake. 1Ls are assigned to a caseworker "mentor" to shadow. As cherrytree mentioned, it's not overly substantial, but mentors can have the 1Ls help with research, projects, and that sort of thing. I'm not sure whether 1Ls will go back to doing phone intake in the future or what model DLS will follow going forward. 

Ah, thanks for chiming in! I feel like shadowing might be a better venue for learning as a 1L, when I did nothing but phone intake in 1L, there were many days when the phones were not busy (my shifts were during lunch) and I just sat around.

[tsanami]

1 hour ago, Pecan Boy said:

Bearing in mind that I was not at UofT pre-pandemic, my sense is that this past fall was somewhat close to normal - most significantly, almost all classes were in person. Big change from last year, which was my 1L year, when 80% of the year was fully remote. The start of this semester was obviously thrown off by Omicron, though we're back largely in person now (maybe to a slightly lesser extent than in the fall). 

As for out-of-school events, we just had a screening of the annual law school comedy sketch show last week in a big movie theatre with probably like 80% of the student body in attendance. We have a formal at the start of April. For context, last year the former was screened for us virtually, and the latter was cancelled. We've also had the weekly bar night ongoing throughout the year, except during Omicron. So we're definitely on a good trajectory.

Assuming you're coming to the school next year, I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't essentially back to normal by then.

Great to hear, thank you! 😄

[Icarus]

Your definition of reasonable could well be different than mine, but I spent 2L and 3L about an hour commute away (car + subway), and it was totally doable. It doesn't make for a vibrant social life but it also doesn't kill it if you make the effort. I'd say it is on the long end of reasonable though. 

[hanbuay]

Hi guys,

I’m wondering if U of t law cares about a cr/ncr course when applying.

 

im doing pretty good in my stem program, around a 3.9 but im taking a 1.0 film studies course that ill probably get a 3.7 in. If i cr/ncr this will it affect my chances? This year will most likely go into my b3

[SubpoenaColada1]

Has anyone taken Securities with Professor Sarro? 

I'm looking to connect with anyone who's taken this course.

[Pecan Boy]

59 minutes ago, AMW said:

Has anyone taken Securities with Professor Sarro? 

I'm looking to connect with anyone who's taken this course.

At UofT? I don't see any instructors named Sarro on the course list (and FWIW, I've never heard of a Sarro teaching sec reg at UofT in the past, but obviously I might be wrong on that). 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pecan Boy

[ruthlessfox]

3 minutes ago, Pecan Boy said:

At UofT? I don't see any instructors named Sarro on the course list (and FWIW, I've never heard of a Sarro teaching sec reg at UofT in the past, but obviously I might be wrong on that). 

You're not wrong. Apparently he's an SJD student/graduate at UofT but he has definitely never taught Sec Reg here.

[lawflamme]

I'm currently in my senior year of high school aiming for UofT law.

Initially, I wanted to go to UofT for my undergrad as well, but apparently it's a very difficult school to get good grades in, which will seriously hinder my chances at going to UofT Law. 

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT? If so, what are some good schools? Also, do double majors have any edge over a typical degree? 

Things I would be interested in majoring in are poli sci, linguistics, or psychology. I think I would enjoy and do best in poli sci, and I would like to study at UofT, but I cant risk the GPA. The other best options in my eyes are uOttawa and Carleton, although I don't know if their reputation is good or bad. 

Thanks! 

[GoatDuck]

9 hours ago, lawflamme said:

I'm currently in my senior year of high school aiming for UofT law.

Initially, I wanted to go to UofT for my undergrad as well, but apparently it's a very difficult school to get good grades in, which will seriously hinder my chances at going to UofT Law. 

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT? If so, what are some good schools? Also, do double majors have any edge over a typical degree? 

Things I would be interested in majoring in are poli sci, linguistics, or psychology. I think I would enjoy and do best in poli sci, and I would like to study at UofT, but I cant risk the GPA. The other best options in my eyes are uOttawa and Carleton, although I don't know if their reputation is good or bad. 

Thanks! 

An undergrad’s reputation won’t matter when you apply to law school, any school that has a Wikipedia page is fine. An intelligent route towards law school would involve doing the major you want at the the school you want. Don’t look at your undergrad purely in terms of how instrumentally-valuable it will be for law school. Also, if you’re aiming for the most competitive law school in the country, it’s not clear to me why you’re shying away from a challenging undergrad. 

[Juicy]

12 hours ago, lawflamme said:

I'm currently in my senior year of high school aiming for UofT law.

Initially, I wanted to go to UofT for my undergrad as well, but apparently it's a very difficult school to get good grades in, which will seriously hinder my chances at going to UofT Law. 

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT? If so, what are some good schools? Also, do double majors have any edge over a typical degree? 

Things I would be interested in majoring in are poli sci, linguistics, or psychology. I think I would enjoy and do best in poli sci, and I would like to study at UofT, but I cant risk the GPA. The other best options in my eyes are uOttawa and Carleton, although I don't know if their reputation is good or bad. 

Thanks! 

I've discovered that law schools and employers (both legal and non-legal) in Canada, don't care about the ranking of an applicant's alma mater. This includes UofT Law, which doesn't favor applicants who completed their undergrad at UofT, despite its top-ranking position in the country. However, certain non-legal employers in specific industries might care about the university attended by applicants. For instance, for someone interested in finance, attending Ivey at Western provides a significant advantage, while for those interested in tech, going to Waterloo is advantageous.

When choosing a major with law school in mind, the most important thing is to choose one in which you can achieve high grades. Whether you pursue a double major has no effect. There's also no advantage in studying traditional undergraduate programs typically associated with law school applicants (e.g., poli sci, econ, psychology, criminology). In fact, there's an advantage in studying more unusual programs like math or music because law schools aim to recruit a class with diverse experiences, making you stand out.

However, if you have the ability to pursue a business, engineering, or computer science degree, and you wouldn't dislike it, I would recommend one of those programs for two reasons. First, not everyone who initially wants to go to law school ends up pursuing it for various reasons. The hard truth is that it's significantly harder to find a well-paying job with a humanities, social science, or general science degree. The skills you learn in those programs are not as useful to most private sector employers. I say this as someone with a social science degree who worked before going to law school. Second, even for someone who ends up going to law school, studying business or engineering will make you a more competitive applicant for big law jobs. My law school classmates who studied those programs got jobs with great firms even with relatively weaker law school grades.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Juicy

[Naj]

2 hours ago, Juicy said:

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT?

Yes

2 hours ago, Juicy said:

psychology

Avoid

[StoneMason]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:51 AM, lawflamme said:

I'm currently in my senior year of high school aiming for UofT law.

Initially, I wanted to go to UofT for my undergrad as well, but apparently it's a very difficult school to get good grades in, which will seriously hinder my chances at going to UofT Law. 

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT? If so, what are some good schools? Also, do double majors have any edge over a typical degree? 

Things I would be interested in majoring in are poli sci, linguistics, or psychology. I think I would enjoy and do best in poli sci, and I would like to study at UofT, but I cant risk the GPA. The other best options in my eyes are uOttawa and Carleton, although I don't know if their reputation is good or bad. 

Thanks! 

Undergrad prestige is not a thing for Canadian law schools. In our class, we have students from virtually every school with a wide ranging set of backgrounds from music to biochem. Your primary goal for undergrad should be to secure the highest possible GPA. For that, you should play to your personal strengths. Instead of focusing on the school name, look into program specifics to get a better sense of the type of courses you'll be taking, and then match those with your skills. 

For what it's worth, a good chunk of our class didn't plan to be at UofT Law when starting undergrad. We picked subjects we were genuinely interested in and then studied our butts off. 

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:03 PM, Naj said:

On 11/26/2023 at 1:51 PM, Juicy said:

Would an intellegent route towards law school involve getting my undergrad at some place other than UofT?

Yes

I think the "U of T hard" trope really only applies to a handful of programs. I would argue that for CompSci, Engineering, Physics, and certain business degrees (i.e., actuarial science) there may be a few difficult courses/professors that you will struggle to maintain high marks in. However, I did a double social science/humanities major while playing a varsity sport and working part time, and in my anecdotal experience, it wasn't significantly difficult. Course averages typically stuck around a B-/B, and if you put in the work and research, you'll get good marks. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by BurnerQuestion123
Wanted to limit specific information on myself.

[lawflamme]

14 hours ago, StoneMason said:

Undergrad prestige is not a thing for Canadian law schools. In our class, we have students from virtually every school with a wide ranging set of backgrounds from music to biochem. Your primary goal for undergrad should be to secure the highest possible GPA. For that, you should play to your personal strengths. Instead of focusing on the school name, look into program specifics to get a better sense of the type of courses you'll be taking, and then match those with your skills. 

For what it's worth, a good chunk of our class didn't plan to be at UofT Law when starting undergrad. We picked subjects we were genuinely interested in and then studied our butts off. 

I've heard it stated that most of the people who've often been accepted into UofT Law usually aren't straight out of undergrad. They've either gone onto grad school or maybe gained experience working and stuff. That's just what I've heard from one person though, so I'm curious if it's true from your experience. Did you and many of the people you know come straight out of undergrad? 

[LMP]

16 minutes ago, lawflamme said:

I've heard it stated that most of the people who've often been accepted into UofT Law usually aren't straight out of undergrad. They've either gone onto grad school or maybe gained experience working and stuff. That's just what I've heard from one person though, so I'm curious if it's true from your experience. Did you and many of the people you know come straight out of undergrad? 

The class profile is avalible on their website. Only 11% of this year's had a grad degree and I can't imagine that a huge number (anything close to a majority) are non K-JD. 

[cherrytree]

16 hours ago, lawflamme said:

I've heard it stated that most of the people who've often been accepted into UofT Law usually aren't straight out of undergrad. They've either gone onto grad school or maybe gained experience working and stuff. That's just what I've heard from one person though, so I'm curious if it's true from your experience. Did you and many of the people you know come straight out of undergrad? 

I entered UTLaw 5-6 years ago and in my experience a significant majority (i.e. 75% plus) of UTLaw are K-JDs.

Although grad school experience and a few years of work experience don't necessarily mean you are a mature student, I'm pretty sure Osgoode had a Mature Students' Associations years before we had a similar club set up, and I don't even know if that club is still active at UTLaw now.

[StoneMason]

23 hours ago, lawflamme said:

I've heard it stated that most of the people who've often been accepted into UofT Law usually aren't straight out of undergrad. They've either gone onto grad school or maybe gained experience working and stuff. That's just what I've heard from one person though, so I'm curious if it's true from your experience. Did you and many of the people you know come straight out of undergrad? 

Others have already shared the statistics which are no doubt the most accurate. All I can tell you is we definitely have a lot of KJDs. You're probably looking at an average age of 23-24 for a typical 1L class. 

Like all Canadian schools, UofT Law is heavily stats dependant where high enough numbers can guarantee admission without much extra-curricular or work experience needed. This is unlike many US schools that value experience a lot more. In Canada, after a certain LSAT + GPA threshold (~3.8/170), you are more or less guaranteed admission, barring any major red flag. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by StoneMason

[StoneMason]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:36 AM, MyWifesBoyfriend said:

I think the "U of T hard" trope really only applies to a handful of programs. I would argue that for CompSci, Engineering, Physics, and certain business degrees (i.e., actuarial science) there may be a few difficult courses/professors that you will struggle to maintain high marks in. However, I did a double social science/humanities major while playing a varsity sport and working part time, and in my anecdotal experience, it wasn't significantly difficult. Course averages typically stuck around a B-/B, and if you put in the work and research, you'll get good marks. 

As someone who also attended UofT for undergrad, this is a very valuable perspective that should be taken note of. For reasons beyond me, the school has gotten a bad rep for being "overly difficult" to excel in but that simply isn't the objective reality. Sure, there are programs like engsci which are truly difficult with low class averages but those are not the norm. I agree that majority of the programs flirt between a B- / B average which, when you think about it, is actually pretty high. People surely aren't complaining that the school does not boast an A- (3.7) average, are they? At least I hope not lol. Isn't the entire reason behind the grading system to have A students be classified as "above average?" 

Edited December 2, 2023 by StoneMason