Thoughts on a dual JD/MA program?

[Thrive92]

1 hour ago, Renerik said:

Not sure what thread you're reading. Most fun I had here was checking IPs for duplicate accounts.

If I must explain, next to the politics thread which spliced into the conversion therapy this is one of the most entertaining threads in the forum that have devolved from OP's main content into verbal shit - throwing in between posters which then leads to an accusation that some posters here are the same person.

You have to admit its kind of funny and entertaining

Edited November 20, 2021 by Thrive92

[BlockedQuebecois]

Normally thread derails are fun because one person (or a few people) are saying patently unreasonable nonsense. That's what made Cryptozoologist so entertaining. This thread derail isn't particularly fun—at least to me—because it's devolved into a bunch of insults and accusations of bad faith, but nobody here is saying anything all that patently unreasonable. It's mainly just people talking past each other. 

If you listed the positions taken in this thread and asked everyone one-by-one if they agreed or disagreed with a proposition, you'd largely have consensus with maybe a few loosely held objections. 

2 hours ago, CrimeAndPunishment said:

I would like to be lawyer but I am worried that I might be among the 40% of men that leave within 5 years. Because of this possibility I would like to get a masters degree in case that happens and hope that it also has the benefit of me possibly being hired by a larger firm when I do become a lawyer (assuming I get in, which I think I should since my GPA is 3.94 for undergrad). I am applying for Masters of Economics programs at Queens, McGill, Calgary and Alberta, I'm applying for law programs for Calgary, Alberta and TRU. I'm applying to UBC for MSc in Business Administration with a specialization in Finance (it is a research program that could lead to a PhD in Finance if I did well, though I don't think I would go that route), I'm applying to Calgary for their mathematical Finance program, and to HEC for Financial Engineering. The job prospects of all the masters degrees I am applying for seem pretty good, however, I was wondering what fields in Law they might give me a leg up on? I am interested in Tax and Corporate (though that could change if I get into law school after 1L) so far, also would some big law firms look at those masters programs and be more likely to hire me because they like my skill set? If so, would it increase my chances of getting into big law by an appreciable amount?

Edit: Also do you think doing something like the CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst) or FRM (Financial Risk Manager) would make me more attractive for employers?

If you want to be a tax or corporate lawyer, you should get into a law school that places well in big law, do well in 1L, then get a job at a good firm. That is the easiest and most direct path to becoming a tax or corporate lawyer. If your grades are weaker, it's worth considering applying to a school's JD/MBA program post-1L, assuming you're set on big law. 

If you don't get into law school this year and you do get into one of those masters programs, you should go if you think you would be interested in the career outcomes out of that program, not because you want to be a corporate or tax lawyer. That's because none of those programs lead to you being a lawyer.

If you eventually went to law school post-masters, all of those programs sound like they would generally show interest in the field to big law firms once you have the grades in 1L to get hired there, but they're not likely to drag you up from below average in law school to getting hired at top firms. To use admissions terminology, they'll be nice "softs", but the most important thing will still be your 1L grades. 

I don't think it's advisable to do a masters before law school simply because you think you might want to leave the profession five years post-call to pursue one of these careers. If in 8 years you realize you want to leave law and go into one of those fields, you can apply to those programs then. It's not that this is a bad decision per se (except financially); you just don't know whether the masters you pursue before law school will be what you want to do in 8+ years. 

[Thrive92]

10 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Normally thread derails are fun because one person (or a few people) are saying patently unreasonable nonsense. That's what made Cryptozoologist so entertaining. This thread derail isn't particularly fun—at least to me—because it's devolved into a bunch of insults and accusations of bad faith, but nobody here is saying anything all that patently unreasonable. It's mainly just people talking past each other. 

Still, it's not common that you get someone who investigates the history of two posters and then accuses the two of being the same person, only to be so wrong. It was a short, but entertaining and a funny accusation that got shut down almost instantly.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Thrive92

[Pendragon]

1 hour ago, Thrive92 said:

Still, it's not common that you get someone who investigates the history of two posters and then accuses the two of being the same person, only to be so wrong. It was a short, but entertaining and a funny accusation that got shut down almost instantly.

It wasn't far off the mark. What really cracked me up is that they admitted to knowing each other in real life - LegalPerson, Ben, and Pecan Boy. God knows who else is involved in this U of T clique that is piling up in this thread.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Pendragon

[WiseGhost]

@Pendragon Based on my research, even the top Canadian PhD programs in the arts have relatively poor professorship placement rates for their grads. This is a generalization of course, and there are undoubtedly exceptions because "arts" refers to so many different fields. However, the academic job market is so cut throat that people really aren't kidding when they say that getting into an Ivy or Oxbridge is one of the best ways to have a shot at landing a position -- and even then there are no guarantees. If some students are being admitted to PhD programs from 'prestigious' universities with a B or B+ average, I think that reflects how there is a glut of programs out there that don't offer good academic employment prospects for their grads. 

[CleanHands]

Okay, this is all super cringe (and I say this with the awareness that I myself get involved in way too many pointless online pissing contests).

We have the old guard forum faction and UofT friend faction both backing each up and agreeing with their "peers" while accusing the other faction of being part of some clique. Everyone looks dumb and hypocritical here.

And as BQ pointed out, I don't see much actual disagreement in the relentless back and forth about top PhD programs vs top JD performance. Reply after reply wouldn't address the posts they were ostensibly replying to (and any fair-minded reader looking back would agree I hardly said anything on this subject, so I wasn't going to, and will not, respond to the weird 10 paragraph long diatribes about it inexplicably addressed to me). 

P.S. - I let it slide the first time but since the "biker bar" analogy is being brought up repeatedly now, without the benefit of the original post remaining and providing context, I'll just say the point of that post was to say it's stupid to go to a community as a newcomer and complain about the tone and culture there and expect all the longtime members there to suddenly conform with your standards. In context it was very obviously not trying to portray talking shit on Internet forums as badass; that's ridiculous (and further indicative of the lack of reading comprehension I mentioned).

Edited November 20, 2021 by CleanHands

[Pecan Boy]

29 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

It wasn't far off the mark. What really cracked me up is that they admitted to knowing each other in real life - LegalPerson, Ben, and Pecan Boy. God knows who else is involved in this U of T clique that is piling up in this thread.

Not sure who else could be part of the clique given that everyone else has just dogpiled @LegalPerson and @Ben (and my sole contribution to the discourse was to make it clear that they're not the same person). But, you're right, it was a really fatal admission on my part to let it slip that we have friends at our law school who also use this forum lol

[LegalPerson]

3 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Normally thread derails are fun because one person (or a few people) are saying patently unreasonable nonsense. That's what made Cryptozoologist so entertaining. This thread derail isn't particularly fun—at least to me—because it's devolved into a bunch of insults and accusations of bad faith, but nobody here is saying anything all that patently unreasonable. It's mainly just people talking past each other. 

If you listed the positions taken in this thread and asked everyone one-by-one if they agreed or disagreed with a proposition, you'd largely have consensus with maybe a few loosely held objections. 

If you want to be a tax or corporate lawyer, you should get into a law school that places well in big law, do well in 1L, then get a job at a good firm. That is the easiest and most direct path to becoming a tax or corporate lawyer. If your grades are weaker, it's worth considering applying to a school's JD/MBA program post-1L, assuming you're set on big law. 

If you don't get into law school this year and you do get into one of those masters programs, you should go if you think you would be interested in the career outcomes out of that program, not because you want to be a corporate or tax lawyer. That's because none of those programs lead to you being a lawyer.

If you eventually went to law school post-masters, all of those programs sound like they would generally show interest in the field to big law firms once you have the grades in 1L to get hired there, but they're not likely to drag you up from below average in law school to getting hired at top firms. To use admissions terminology, they'll be nice "softs", but the most important thing will still be your 1L grades. 

I don't think it's advisable to do a masters before law school simply because you think you might want to leave the profession five years post-call to pursue one of these careers. If in 8 years you realize you want to leave law and go into one of those fields, you can apply to those programs then. It's not that this is a bad decision per se (except financially); you just don't know whether the masters you pursue before law school will be what you want to do in 8+ years. 

Solid advice

[Rashabon]

3 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Normally thread derails are fun because one person (or a few people) are saying patently unreasonable nonsense. That's what made Cryptozoologist so entertaining. This thread derail isn't particularly fun—at least to me—because it's devolved into a bunch of insults and accusations of bad faith, but nobody here is saying anything all that patently unreasonable. It's mainly just people talking past each other. 

If you listed the positions taken in this thread and asked everyone one-by-one if they agreed or disagreed with a proposition, you'd largely have consensus with maybe a few loosely held objections. 

If you want to be a tax or corporate lawyer, you should get into a law school that places well in big law, do well in 1L, then get a job at a good firm. That is the easiest and most direct path to becoming a tax or corporate lawyer. If your grades are weaker, it's worth considering applying to a school's JD/MBA program post-1L, assuming you're set on big law. 

If you don't get into law school this year and you do get into one of those masters programs, you should go if you think you would be interested in the career outcomes out of that program, not because you want to be a corporate or tax lawyer. That's because none of those programs lead to you being a lawyer.

If you eventually went to law school post-masters, all of those programs sound like they would generally show interest in the field to big law firms once you have the grades in 1L to get hired there, but they're not likely to drag you up from below average in law school to getting hired at top firms. To use admissions terminology, they'll be nice "softs", but the most important thing will still be your 1L grades. 

I don't think it's advisable to do a masters before law school simply because you think you might want to leave the profession five years post-call to pursue one of these careers. If in 8 years you realize you want to leave law and go into one of those fields, you can apply to those programs then. It's not that this is a bad decision per se (except financially); you just don't know whether the masters you pursue before law school will be what you want to do in 8+ years. 

Yes this is all broadly correct, with the caveat that an MA or advanced studies in economics will be beneficial if you want to do competition law (but not mandatory) and an advanced degree or engineering degree would be beneficial for certain aspects of IP law (but not all of them).

Beyond that, law school grades are key. Law firms are hiring lawyers, and the knowledge any one person has from their other degree quickly becomes stale and of no material benefit. There may be CFAs that understand the intricacy of a type of security better than me, but if they haven't been practicing securities laws for as long as I have, that's useless knowledge because that's what the bankers are for, and they won't know the lawyer side of the job nearly as well.

[99problems]

This is the most toxic thread I've been reading in a while. I love it!

You guys wanna play some Dota 2? You'd fit in the community perfectly

[CleanHands]

2 minutes ago, not not a lawyer said:

This is the most toxic thread I've been reading in a while. I love it!

You'll enjoy this classic: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751

(You're welcome)

[99problems]

6 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

You'll enjoy this classic: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751

(You're welcome)

LMAO. The arguments are hilarious.

[CleanHands]

Just now, not not a lawyer said:

LMAO. The arguments are hilarious.

That thread is so Internet (in)famous that Jon Bois did a short documentary series episode on it: 

 

[GreyDude]

35 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

You'll enjoy this classic: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751

(You're welcome)

I teach critical thinking. Along with the video, you have just given me a pedagogical tool. Freakin' brilliant. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by GreyDude

[AllanC]

25 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

-Snip-

So....can you work out 3.5 days in a week or not? 

[BlockedQuebecois]

Nobody tell big law partners there are 15 days every two weeks. They'll wonder why we've only been billing for 14 of them. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[Toad]

Man, Bodybuilding.com used to be great. Stupid threads like that weren't even that uncommon. 

[Vizslaw]

@CleanHands To be fair I double-count Sunday when I docket/have to work weekends.