What factors contribute to hire back?

[LawStudent604]

My grades have been less than stellar throughout law school and I'm in my final year so I won't be able to raise my GPA significantly. I already have an articling position but I'm now worrying about the possibility of not getting hired back and having trouble finding another job because of my low GPA.

What factors do firms consider when they're hiring back after articling? Will my grades hold me back?

[CleanHands]

Basically...

1) In a general sense are they the kind of firm that hires articling students with the intent for them to become associates (i.e. literally any BigLaw OCI firm), or for cheap labour to be discarded at the end of the articling term (i.e. many small firms or sole practitioners)? Government articling positions are also often bad for hireback but the articling arrangements tend not to be exploitative.

2) If they hire articling students intending to hire them back from the outset, have you performed with a minimal and basic level of competence and avoided causing them any huge problems?

Really hireback has less to do with the quality of the students and more to do with the nature of the positions and intentions of the employers.

Oh, and no employer will care about your grades after they have an articling term to judge you by.

[LawStudent604]

8 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Basically...

1) In a general sense are they the kind of firm that hires articling students with the intent for them to become associates (i.e. literally any BigLaw OCI firm), or for cheap labour to be discarded at the end of the articling term (i.e. many small firms or sole practitioners)? Government articling positions are also often bad for hireback but the articling arrangements tend not to be exploitative.

2) If they hire articling students intending to hire them back from the outset, have you performed with a minimal and basic level of competence and avoided causing them any huge problems?

Really hireback has less to do with the quality of the students and more to do with the nature of the positions and intentions of the employers.

Oh, and no employer will care about your grades after they have an articling term to judge you by.

Thanks for the insight, CleanHands.

The firm is a BigLaw OCI firm and during my summers with them I didn't do anything that would bring negative attention to them or myself and I basically made sure that I just did my work. So hopefully that helps my case.

[Pecan Boy]

1 hour ago, LawStudent604 said:

The firm is a BigLaw OCI firm and during my summers with them I didn't do anything that would bring negative attention to them or myself and I basically made sure that I just did my work. So hopefully that helps my case.

You can see hireback numbers for BigLaw firms for the past several years here: https://lawandstyle.ca/hireback-watch/bay-street-hireback-ranking/?yr=2021

At just about any one of these firms, you'll have extremely good odds.

[Conge]

I would say nearly all hire backs can be reduced to three criteria, and they all need to be met to varying degrees: (1) do they have the work/budget for you? (2) do you do good work/work hard? and (3) does a lawyer or group of lawyers like you enough to spend long hours working with you for the foreseeable future? 

In my experience, if one of those things is not met, the hire back is in jeopardy.  

[lawjunkie]

how do we ensure the best chances for hire back without feeling like it's a long extended interview (articling with the stress that they might not hire you back) 

[Kimura]

4 hours ago, CleanHands said:

Oh, and no employer will care about your grades after they have an articling term to judge you by.

Are you referring to the employer you articled for or an employer you'll apply to in the event you're not hired back? Or both?

[CleanHands]

13 minutes ago, Kimura said:

Are you referring to the employer you articled for or an employer you'll apply to in the event you're not hired back? Or both?

Only the former.

My point is that your articling employer will have a year to directly observe your work. So no employer in that position is going to go "this kid absolutely crushed it as an articling student, they were great, fantastic research, super fast learner...but their 3L grades brought their average down from when we hired them, so let's cut them loose." This is so obvious when it's articulated out loud, but people who are still students understandably have a lot of paranoid anxiety given the uncertainties and pressures and ranking hierarchies they are exposed to.

If you aren't hired back, well, other employers won't have that benefit of having observed you directly, so law school grades are probably a relevant consideration if you are a brand new call, because they have to act on more limited information. (With that said, a friend of mine articled in crim defence and become a Crown within a few months of being called and they never asked for his transcripts even though it was government...so I can only speak in generalities and there are of course always exceptions to them.)

[Ghalm]

3 hours ago, Conge said:

I would say nearly all hire backs can be reduced to three criteria, and they all need to be met to varying degrees: (1) do they have the work/budget for you? (2) do you do good work/work hard? and (3) does a lawyer or group of lawyers like you enough to spend long hours working with you for the foreseeable future? 

In my experience, if one of those things is not met, the hire back is in jeopardy.  

I would second this. Also, even if the firm has the budget, they can ax students on the basis of (2) and (3). I saw it happen at my firm... "record year" but it was a deliberate decision not to hire back those that were cut based on their performance / rep. 

[FORCE]

Hi !!!! I'm thinking of doing the national program JD at UOttawa ? But I'm very much hesitant because of the amount of competition in the work force in Ontario ? Do anyone of  you have any tips,  extracurriculars that I can do to be able to compete at the same level as student that have done 3 years of JD ?