Not Returning to Firm I Articled With - Questions About the New Call Job Market

[Anonymous Apple]

Hello Everyone,

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but thought I might get some great advice from lawyers familiar with the legal market.

I am coming to the end of my articling term and I have been offered a job to begin as an associate about a month ago. I do not want to return to the firm I am at now because, without diving into descriptive details, the firm is (in my opinion) mismanaged and has a toxic work environment. I was told by some to just take the job and wait until I eventually receive offers for a lateral transfer between firms. I don't see a future at this firm and would prefer not to spend a day longer than I have to.

A few questions I have for you guys-

1. How difficult would it be to find a job post-call without one lined up already?
2. Would potential employers look down on me for technically not being hired back?
3. When should I start sending out resumes and applying to other positions?
4. I would like to eventually like to snag an in-house or government position. Would it be difficult to find a position this summer given my limited legal experience?
5. Am I crazy for wanting to turn down a job because I feel like there is something better for me out there?

What other advice might you have for me? I really appreciate any suggestions you all might have!

[MagnaCarter]

1. The market for new calls can be quite competitive and any post-call experience you can leverage is helpful.

2. I don't think employers would necessarily look down on you. Many, many people are not hired back and land jobs at other firms or other practice areas. However, it is easy for a prospective employer to draw positive inferences from the fact you were hired back, which can be leveraged.

3. In your case, as soon as possible. No sense in waiting IMO.

4. Depends on your practice area. See point #1 about being able to leverage any post-call experience to bolster any future applications.

5. Absolutely not crazy and I think what you are feeling is quite normal.

My general advice is to do what is best for you. In a perfect scenario, you could accept the associate position and endure it until you find something better, that way mitigating against any gaps in your resume and building the most competitive application you can. But don't kill yourself trying to endure something like a toxic workplace if it gets to a point you cannot handle it, because no job is worth it. Toxic work environments can be absolutely soul-crushing to your mental health and can completely turn someone away from this profession for good. I've been in these situations before and it is really so incredibly unpleasant to say the least. Being a lawyer is hard enough that we shouldn't be made to feel worse by our own employers or colleagues. It also really does not need to be that way and there are many firms, legal departments, or opportunities at large that are not toxic. In the long run, I think you are smart for recognizing the state of your current position and trying to look elsewhere.

Edited February 7, 2022 by MagnaCarter

[Deadpool]

You haven't mentioned anything about 1) Your practice area/s and 2) The size of the employer (big law firm, medium, small, boutique, etc.). This would assist us with giving you tailored advice regarding your situation. 

1) Most job postings for junior lawyers ask for a minimum of 2-3 years post-call experience. I rarely see postings asking for 0-2 years. It's a tough market for new calls and I am aware of people that were called in 2020 and 2021 still looking for their ideal job. 

2) How would they know? Many people do not return to their articling employer. A lot of articling students are not hired back by their employer even if they do excellent work and are likeable for a number of reasons — not enough work, can't pay them what they deserve, etc. 

3) Right now. 

4) More in-house employers are hiring junior lawyers. However, for the corporate jobs you will likely need be at a Big law firm and practice for 1-2 years at least. If you have corporate experience, then your best bet is to aim for crown corporations as you can possibly get in as a junior lawyer. For the insuance defence jobs, you can get in straight out of articling.

If you did not article in government, it is very difficult to impossible to get in as a junior lawyer for a counsel position. The Ontario MAG has very low hireback rates for their articling students. These students are then kept in a pool for I believe 2 years and would have priority if any positions were to open up. Most positions are also restricted to internal employees only. The federal government rarely hires externally as well unless they are looking to fill a mid-level to senior role and require specialized experience. You can try to get a non-legal position like a policy advisor. Even then, the preference is for master's degrees and PhDs over law degrees. Almost all the lawyers working at the City of Toronto are their former articling students (which they even state directly on their website). Most job postings I see for city jobs ask for a few years of work experience in one or more of their practice areas. In conclusion, the best way to get a government lawyer job is as a law student. A lot of these doors are closed to you if you miss out on these pools while as a student. 

5) This is your personal decision and no one can judge you for that. One thing you want to consider though is how long you think it will take you to find another position and your debt levels and living situation. Unless you are financially supported, it is good to have some income while you are looking for a job. My advice is that it is always better to have a job than to not have one at all. It would also help you find another job because employers would assume that you are employed and therefore not desperately looking for a job. That being said, if this workplace is affecting your mental health and happiness, then absolutely leave and take care of yourself first. 

[Anonymous Apple]

@MagnaCarter@Deadpool thank you both for replying!  Your advice is very helpful and insightful. For what it is worth, I'm currently working for a boutique insurance defence firm. The workplace is toxic to the point where it has impacted my mental health. Although I feel passionate about legal work when I'm on the clock, it dissipates when I encounter certain toxic aspects of my workplace. 

 

I believe Deadpool mentioned that I could find an insurance defence job in-house straight out of articling? How do you guys see my odds of finding an in-house position now that you know I articled for an insurance defence firm? If it makes a difference in terms of scoring the government job, I also have some experience working for the provincial government before attending law school (probably should have mentioned that before, I apologize).

 

I guess another question for the two of you (or anyone else on here) is whether I should bother applying to job ads that are asking for lawyers to have 2+ years experience. As Deadpool said, there are barely any asking for fresh new calls at the moment. Also, I don't know if I should be applying now because I wouldn't be able to start until after I get called to the bar (hopefully sometime in June).

 

A lawyer I just spoke with told me to agree to the hireback, delay my start date for 2-3 months, and then look for another job. That way I have a fail-safe option of staying with the firm I'm at if I don't find anything. I don't really think that is a good idea because if I do end up finding something else, it'd be a big F-U to the firm I am at now. Since the legal profession is kind of tight, I don't think its wise to burn a bridge unless I need to because it can always come back and bite me. The lawyer told me not to worry and that everyone does that. Seemed a bit sleezy to me, but I'm brand new to the profession so I have no idea how things operate. Thoughts?

 

Thanks again for your help you two!

[Deadpool]

You don't need to accept your offer with your current firm. There are many personal injury and insurance defence firms currently looking for warm bodies and asking for new calls to apply. I would connect with a legal recruiter who can share some of these opportunities with you. They are also posted in the weekly Ontario Reports. You can go in-house at an insurance company like Desjardins or Intact as well. These companies have been hiring a lot of new calls and junior lawyers during the pandemic. In-house corporate is off the table for now if your experience is primarily in personal injury and insurance defence. 

Prior government experience doesn't matter now if you are applying for counsel positions as a lawyer. For these positions you need legal experience in the areas of law they are looking for. I can't think of many government jobs in Ontario looking for insurance lawyers other than the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board and Workplace Safety and Insurance Appeals Tribunal. They participate in the articling process and don't often hire external counsel either. Another place to look into is the Insurance Bureau of Canada but you need 4+ years of experience for the job postings I've seen — http://www.ibc.ca/on/about-us/working-at-ibc/counsel. If you want to go into the government sooner rather than later, you can switch into criminal law and after getting some experience in this area, apply to the crown attorney and legal aid duty counsel jobs. However, there is a high burnout rate for criminal lawyers in the government as well. 

I wouldn't take that lawyer's advice to be honest. I believe you should start your career in good faith. And it is not at all difficult to find new call positions in personal injury and insurance defence right now. 

[MagnaCarter]

I agree with Deadpool about your ability to find in-house positions or other new positions in PI/ID. Those opportunities are out there and there is another thread in the Civil Litigation section of this site about what the expectations are in PI vs. ID vs. in-house that you may find useful. A recruiter may be helpful, but if in-house at an insurance company is what you are truly after, I don't think you need to look much further than LinkedIn or Indeed. Canadian Defence Lawyers also have a database with job postings for ID jobs. That being said, I still think there is much more opportunity for those with some post-call experience than with none. It is always worth applying for jobs asking for 2+ years experience, but don't be surprised if you do not receive responses.

There is a lot of movement in the PI/ID bar and you shouldn't worry too much about the consequences of moving to another job generally. Your firm won't have difficulty finding a replacement. But if you for sure have no desire or intention to ever return as an associate, I don't think its worth the trouble to delay the start date so as to give you time to find a new job. It's dishonest and may be awkward when you inevitably run into former co-workers in your future cases (the ID bar is not as big as you think).

[CleanHands]

17 hours ago, Anonymous Apple said:

A lawyer I just spoke with told me to agree to the hireback, delay my start date for 2-3 months, and then look for another job. That way I have a fail-safe option of staying with the firm I'm at if I don't find anything. I don't really think that is a good idea because if I do end up finding something else, it'd be a big F-U to the firm I am at now. Since the legal profession is kind of tight, I don't think its wise to burn a bridge unless I need to because it can always come back and bite me. The lawyer told me not to worry and that everyone does that. Seemed a bit sleezy to me, but I'm brand new to the profession so I have no idea how things operate. Thoughts?

Yeah, don't do this. You seem to be a level-headed person with good professional instincts and your intuition is correct.