Is it too late for me?

[KC P]

Hi there, 

I just wanted your advice. I am 33, I just finished my MBA and completed my BA back in 2015. I have a full fledged insurance practice and I am making a solid income as an insurance professional. I also have a young daughter and my wife is pregnant. However, law school has always been on my mind (particularly the Dual JD program or Osgoode). Is it even possible for me to fathom this, being this late in the game? Are there any "mature" students I can connect with? Where do I even begin? 

Thank you

[CleanHands]

I'm your age and a recent JD grad. There were a few people our age or older in my class. So yes, it's "possible."

Whether it makes sense to do in your specific case is difficult to say without you elaborating on your objectives and priorities though.

[mjslava]

I am 33 and have applied this cycle. I graduated with my BA in History and Criminology back in 2016. I have a family, two young kids, and I own a successful business. I could continue to own this and a few other businesses and live comfortably but, like you, I’ve always had an interest in becoming a lawyer and feel that it’s the right fit for me. Now that my kids are older, I now have more time and confidence to pursue a legal career. 
 

Almost a year ago to date is when I began studying for the LSAT. I studied for at least 3 hours a day 5/6 days a week for 9 months and wrote the January LSAT. That's how I started. I knew I had an uphill battle to overcome and worked my ass off to get a good score. I’ve spoken to a number of lawyers and law students who started “late” (30+), and none of them have had issues starting at a later age in regards to finding employment. If you look at the first year demographics, you’ll notice that 30+ year olds account for >10%. Think about it. Say you start at 37/38 years of age. You’d still have a 30-35+ year career, health providing. You’re not starting late.

Is this something that you’ve spoken to your wife about? 

Edited March 9, 2022 by mjslava

[GreyDude]

Well, let's see... maybe this is one where my own situation can shed light.

13 hours ago, KC P said:

I am 33, I just finished my MBA and completed my BA back in 2015. I have a full fledged insurance practice and I am making a solid income as an insurance professional. I also have a young daughter and my wife is pregnant. However, law school has always been on my mind (particularly the Dual JD program or Osgoode). Is it even possible for me to fathom this, being this late in the game? Are there any "mature" students I can connect with? Where do I even begin? 

Haha... I'm literally applying to law school as I near retirement age. Both my degrees are from the 80s. So I really hope it's not too late for you, OP.

It's a personal thing. Age is NOT just a number. Your time of life shapes the opportunities you are able to seek, and, I hope, the self-knowledge that can come with age can help you to see which of them you ought to seek. Many of my friends think I'm a little nuts for making a move to go back to school at this time of my life, and maybe I am. Some of my best buddies are settling into their rocking chairs and getting ready to, well, rock. But law seems to be where my life has led me (for various reasons), and since I'm not doing it for the money, and since I'm in good health so far, it's maybe not as nuts as all that. Retirement looks boring.

Do I want to be a first-year call in my sixties? Not so much. But there are no do-overs, and I'm going to be in my sixties anyway. I figure I can be that age with, or without, qualifications in law. I'm not doing it for the money, so the financial hit is easier to take, and I have figured out how to pay for the years I'd be in law school. My family is behind me, and the form of service I'm aiming at will make good use of such qualifications, so here I go. 

"Late in the game" is a matter of perspective. Maybe I'm a late bloomer. Only you know if you can or should do law school with one young child and another coming. But if you can, and if they're on board as well (because some of the sacrifices will be made by them), then the fact that your BA has reached the hoary old age of 7 should not be your main concern. If this is where your life is leading you, and you have the support of your family, then by god, do it. Or at least, if you don't, don't let your age be the thing that stopped you—because in ten years, your opinion about what counts as "old" will probably have changed, and you either will, or will not, be a lawyer.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by GreyDude
I've already doxxed myself enough. Just removed a couple of details.

[CleanHands]

11 minutes ago, GreyDude said:

-Snip-

One thing I will say is that I'm glad I don't look older than other articling students, because it would suck to be at that level of competence while everyone assumes one is a 20 year call. I can still mostly get a pass for my ignorance and roughness around the edges.

Your experience will be interesting, I'd like to hear about it when you article/get called.

With that said, the other day in court I was chatting with a lawyer who started in his 40's and he is thrilled he made the switch. He joked about being in bankruptcy and insolvency law class and being the only one there who had ever actually gone bankrupt.

[Possum]

Yes @GreyDude!!!
I'm grateful for this conversation.  I am also older, operating successful businesses and I find myself occasionally questioning why I would rock the boat.  But the question doesn't last long... I echo GreyDude's sentiments - if you're hearing the call, your circumstances allow, and your loved ones are supportive - go for it!
Probably my biggest apprehension is in being in a class of 20somethings, but I remind myself that these will be focused and driven 20somethings and we will likely have loads in common. 
I don't really care about being a 40something articling student.  We all have things to learn at all ages of life.  I am fully aware once I get through the apprentice stage of this field the mass of life experience and professional connections I've accumulated will launch me into a very rewarding career.
 

[SlytherinLLP]

It's definitely not too late, I think the crux of it will be finances - are you prepared to incur the debt and bring in negligible income for 3 years? There is definitely a hefty opportunity cost.

I assume you would want to leverage your insurance background and practice insurance law? Perhaps reach out to some lawyers (or maybe you already interact with them) that practice in that space and see if it's something that interests you. 

I vaguely remember from my application package that the average age of applicants was 26. 

[OntheVerge]

I was an older student, too. . I finished my undergrad later in life, having spent my 20s figuring out what I wanted to do. I remember being worried going back to undergrad about being the oldest person in the classroom and I wasn't even close. Same with law school. Sure, some early - mid twenties, but a lot of late thirties, forties, and older were around. My worry about only getting called to the bar in my 30s wasn't a big deal at all. I was called to the bar at the age of 36.

So long as you can sort out your finances and figure out how to make the day to day work, going to school as a "mature" student isn't a big deal. Some of my older friends with young kids would wait until their kids went to bed before starting on their school work in the evening and were able to balance family time vs. law school life. They still came out to pub nights and extracurricular activities, so it's manageable with good time management.

 

[GreyDude]

32 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Your experience will be interesting, I'd like to hear about it when you article/get called.

Hopefully, we'll both still be here and you will have seen my ups and downs.

26 minutes ago, Possum said:

Probably my biggest apprehension is in being in a class of 20somethings, but I remind myself that these will be focused and driven 20somethings and we will likely have loads in common. 

I currently teach, and every year I have students who end up at the law school I hope to attend (if I'm admitted!). There is actually a chance that I could enter law school and find that a student whose papers I had been grading the year before has become my study-buddy. That would be interesting. The idea makes me laugh every time.

[KC P]

Thank you for everybody who chimed in.

The other thing too is that I wrote the LSAT back in 2018 with  really crappy marks. I got a 136 which sucks. Is there a chance for me to get into law school if I have some other redeeming qualities, such as graduating with a high GPA with my MBA program and have lots of extra curricular activities (Such as volunteering monthly for the homeless in downtown Toronto, and helping run the homeless outreach?). Money is not an issue for me.

Edited March 9, 2022 by KC P

[CleanHands]

2 minutes ago, KC P said:

Thank you for everybody who chimed in.

The other thing too is that I wrote the LSAT back in 2018 with  really crappy marks. I got a 136 which sucks. Is there a chance for me to get into law school if I have some other redeeming qualities, such as graduating with a high GPA with my MBA program and have lots of extra curricular activities (Such as volunteering monthly for the homeless in downtown Toronto, and helping run the homeless outreach?). Money is not an issue for me.

Welp...

That is a 5th percentile LSAT, dude. You absolutely are going to need to increase that tremendously to be competitive for admission at any Canadian school that requires an LSAT, regardless of all other factors in your application package.

[mjslava]

4 minutes ago, KC P said:

Thank you for everybody who chimed in.

The other thing too is that I wrote the LSAT back in 2018 with  really crappy marks. I got a 136 which sucks. Is there a chance for me to get into law school if I have some other redeeming qualities, such as graduating with a high GPA with my MBA program and have lots of extra curricular activities (Such as volunteering monthly for the homeless in downtown Toronto, and helping run the homeless outreach?). Money is not an issue for me.

You’re gonna have to pump those numbers up. I went from 142 to 169 in 9 months, so it definitely is possible to make a significant jump. If you’re serious about this, start studying now. I recommend 7Sage.
 

Also, most admissions staff won’t take bribes so put your money away.

[KC P]

As I posted on the U of Windsor forum, my main goal is to get accepted into the Dual JD program. I've heard that their admissions process is more "wholistic"

[mjslava]

Just now, KC P said:

As I posted on the U of Windsor forum, my main goal is to get accepted into the Dual JD program. I've heard that their admissions process is more "wholistic"

They may be, but not 136 holistic. Depending on what your Undergrad cGPA was, you’d probably need at least a 155 to be competitive.

[Electricity]

Just now, KC P said:

As I posted on the U of Windsor forum, my main goal is to get accepted into the Dual JD program. I've heard that their admissions process is more "wholistic"

A holistic admissions scheme won’t save you from a 136, unfortunately. Is this the only reason you were interested in Windsor Dual? Are you aware their tuition is significantly higher than most schools in Canada?

How much studying went into that score? 

[KC P]

1 minute ago, Electricity said:

A holistic admissions scheme won’t save you from a 136, unfortunately. Is this the only reason you were interested in Windsor Dual? Are you aware their tuition is significantly higher than most schools in Canada?

How much studying went into that score? 

Nope... Dual JD has always been my dream program and number one choice to begin with. I would pick it over any program if I had any other offer.

I did study...but admittedly not as much as I'd like.

 I was distracted, I was newly married, I had a child coming, and I was working full time to support my family.

[Rashabon]

I commented on your other thread but chances are virtually nil with that LSAT score.

[Electricity]

1 minute ago, KC P said:

Nope... Dual JD has always been my dream program and number one choice to begin with. I would pick it over any program if I had any other offer.

If you don't mind me asking, why is your top choice the dual program in particular? 

[KC P]

I want to run as president for a country that is based on US law, but has some parliamentary features like that in Canada.

Also, I worked for US firms my entire life, so definitely I can see a future in the USA as an option.

Edited March 9, 2022 by KC P

[mjslava]

Just now, KC P said:

I want to run as president for a country that is based on US law.

Ok.

[Rashabon]

3 minutes ago, KC P said:

I want to run as president for a country that is based on US law, but has some parliamentary features like that in Canada.

Also, I worked for US firms my entire life, so definitely I can see a future in the USA as an option.

Ah. So you're just nuts.

[KC P]

Just now, Rashabon said:

Ah. So you're just nuts.

Nope I'm serious. I want to run for President in that country.

[Rashabon]

Our statements aren't in opposition, lots of nutty people are serious about their delusions and weird ideas.

I don't think the Windsor Dual is that much of a leg up in becoming President of the Philippines or whatever.

[KC P]

In some countries... having the Dual JD can qualify you to write the bar automatically, and yes you are right countries like the Philippines does have a constitution that is based heavily on the US's.

[CleanHands]

Okay well, this has changed from a potentially useful and meaningful discussion about going to law school as a mature student to...something a lot less productive, but more entertaining I'm sure.