Is there any advantage to having a Harvard Law degree if I work in Canada?

[darthkitty]

I’ve been admitted to Harvard Law as well as UofT and UBC. Won’t have debt at any of these options. However if I go to Harvard, I will still be using money that I could have used for something else. I’m under the impression that if I intend to work in the US, the cost is worth it.  But I am not sure if I will even want to stay in the US after I graduate. So if I go back to Canada, will the Harvard degree give me any advantage? 

[NowOrNever]

Harvard is good for everywhere.

Go to Harvard!👍

[Lawstudents20202020]

I think you need to decide which country you want to practice in. Harvard won't hurt your career prospects but you will have additional hoops to jump through to come practice in Canada. I believe Harvard is also significantly more expensive than any Canadian law school, and the big law wages in Canada aren't going to be any higher because of your degree. 

[Rashabon]

Advantage? Not really. It's better having Harvard and coming back to Canada than, say, Virginia or Duke or UCLA, but it will not advantage you over Canadian-educated lawyers, at least at larger shops, and you'll need to do Canadian equivalency exams if you jump in the early days.

I can't speak to whether a small firm might be impressed by Harvard, but most partners at large firms in Canada are Canadian-trained and so won't see Harvard as more impressive than their own degrees and background.

My understanding as well is that if you're not a U.S. citizen, some of the non-big law opportunities in the U.S. (federal clerkships and prestigious government attorney roles) are unavailable, so you're exclusively banking on a U.S. big law career for the degree to have any additional meaning.

I'll say this - it is cheaper and easier to get a NYC big law job coming from U of T than getting a Canadian big law job coming from Harvard. I have a hard time saying the cost is "worth it" if you intend to work in the U.S. I think justifiable is a better answer, since if you're a good student at U of T, you can easily go to New York these days, although if the market ever slows down, a Harvard degree will definitely carry further in the U.S.

26 minutes ago, NowOrNever said:

Harvard is good for everywhere.

Go to Harvard!👍

Stick to acceptance threads.

[scooter]

2 hours ago, darthkitty said:

I’ve been admitted to Harvard Law as well as UofT and UBC. Won’t have debt at any of these options. However if I go to Harvard, I will still be using money that I could have used for something else. I’m under the impression that if I intend to work in the US, the cost is worth it.  But I am not sure if I will even want to stay in the US after I graduate. So if I go back to Canada, will the Harvard degree give me any advantage? 

Do you want to go to Harvard? Like are you looking for reassurance that it's a good decision to go, or are you looking for reassurance that it's OK to turn it down? I think if you can answer that question for yourself, then the decision is clear. Just do whatever it is that you really want to do. There is no right answer here, there may be some potential downsides of going to Harvard, but also many potential upsides.

[Twenty]

2 hours ago, NowOrNever said:

Harvard is good for everywhere.

Go to Harvard!👍

You got flamed for this (🙄)...but Harvard with no debt seems like a no-brainer to me, notwithstanding the hoops OP woud have to jump through to practice in Canada if they wanted. 

[scooter]

4 minutes ago, Twenty said:

You got flamed for this (🙄)...but Harvard with no debt seems like a no-brainer to me, notwithstanding the hoops OP woud have to jump through to practice in Canada if they wanted. 

Agreed. And for someone who went to Harvard Law and scored a 180 on the LSAT, I don't think the "hoops" to practice in Canada should pose much of a challenge. Lol

[Twenty]

Just now, scooter said:

Agreed. And for someone who went to Harvard Law and scored a 180 on the LSAT, I don't think the "hoops" to practice in Canada should pose much of a challenge. Lol

Yup. Also, I am legit so confused why there was even a discussion about cost between U of T vs. Harvard when OP has no debt either way.

OP,  even though there "will still [...be...] money that [you] could have used for something else"...well, you're using it to attend Harvard. Money well spent IMO. 

[Rashabon]

If you have no intention of practicing in the US, going to Harvard when the OP clearly indicated that they would have the benefit of the savings on tuition seems like a waste.

I'd rather go to to UBC and U of T and pocket 40-60 grand a year or whatever instead.

$150-200K plus a UBC degree debt free is "buying a house in Toronto/Vancouver as an associate" money.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rashabon

[Electricity]

2 hours ago, Rashabon said:

but most partners at large firms in Canada are Canadian-trained and so won't see Harvard as more impressive than their own degrees and background.

huh?

[Rashabon]

1 minute ago, Electricity said:

huh?

What is confusing you here?

[Twenty]

OP, there is a big difference between being unsure if you want to practice in the US vs. having no intention of practicing in the US...and even then, life happens and people change plans. (Also, even if you do end up in Canada, I am not convinced that going to Harvard debt-free is a bad choice.)

Harvard is an amazing opportunity and it will be fantastic to see where it will take you. I wouldn't trade it for savings. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Twenty

[Lawstudents20202020]

39 minutes ago, scooter said:

Agreed. And for someone who went to Harvard Law and scored a 180 on the LSAT, I don't think the "hoops" to practice in Canada should pose much of a challenge. Lol

It's not that they are hard, it's that they are time consuming. Its a delay of months if not years of your career, which is a substantial opportunity cost in the heels of paying an additional 200k. 

34 minutes ago, Twenty said:

Yup. Also, I am legit so confused why there was even a discussion about cost between U of T vs. Harvard when OP has no debt either way.

You are aware that $200,000 has an approximate value of $200,000 right? 

[MapleLeafs]

5 minutes ago, Lawstudents20202020 said:

You are aware that $200,000 has an approximate value of $200,000 right? 

If you want to work in Toronto Biglaw, I would rather attend UofT and spend the $200k on a downpayment in Toronto. 

[Lawstudents20202020]

Just now, MapleLeafs said:

If you want to work in Toronto Biglaw, I would rather attend UofT and spend the $200k on a downpayment in Toronto. 

That's exactly it. Ive worked for some extremely wealthy people in my day, and not a single one of them would burn $200,000k casually

[Electricity]

34 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

What is confusing you here?

You don’t think Harvard Law would be an eye-catcher for most Canadian partners? UofT and UBC are phenomenal, but candidates from those schools are a dime a dozen on Bay Street. The admissions standards alone at HYS are just so much higher. I would assume most lawyers, even ones educated in Canada, are aware of this.

[Twenty]

$200k in debt is different from spending $200k and coming out with still no debt. I wouldn't classify spending money to attend Harvard as a casual expense.

(Edit: Also, we don't know really how much OP is actually going to be spending since they made no comment about scholarships/financial aid re: Harvard. Not that they need to diclose any of this of course.)

Edited March 25, 2022 by Twenty

[Rashabon]

2 minutes ago, Electricity said:

You don’t think Harvard Law would be an eye-catcher for most Canadian partners? UofT and UBC are phenomenal, but candidates from those schools are a dime a dozen on Bay Street. The admissions standards alone at HYS are just so much higher. I would assume most lawyers, even ones educated in Canada, are aware of this.

I know it would not be an eye-catcher for most Canadian partners at big law firms. The candidates are a dime a dozen because the firms deliberately want to recruit from those schools. A student that goes to Harvard does not have a particular leg up on a U of T student as an incoming associate. Harvard doesn't have magical training that lets candidates hit the ground running faster. In fact, given Canadian rules, they're less desirable because they need to complete the NCA exams first.

Most partners at Canadian firms are not from HYS, and so they know right off the bat that going to Harvard is unnecessary for career success. So no, I don't think Canadian partners will really care all that much if you went to Harvard instead of U of T. You're talking about people that make millions of dollars a year and dealing with significant players in the Canadian economy. If you think that they are going to roll over impressed that a candidate went to Harvard, you're out of your mind.

7 minutes ago, Twenty said:

$200k in debt is different from spending $200k and come out with still no debt. I wouldn't classify spending money to attend Harvard as a casual expense.

No you're right, students should buy porsches instead of Honda civics because while both will still get you to your destination, just think of how much shinier a porsche is.

[Twenty]

1 minute ago, Rashabon said:

No you're right, students should buy porsches instead of Honda civics because while both will still get you to your destination, just think of how much shinier a porsche is.

Yesss~ we love an analogy that glossess over the nuance. 

OP, if you're unsure about where you will want to practice, Harvard will open more doors and the lack of debt won't hold you back. The world is more than just Toronto and there's a solid argument to be made for attending Harvard and seeing where it will take you. I still think that even if you end up in Toronto (which this forum is taking for granted, despite the fact that plans can change), Harvard is not a wrong decision. It's a unique opportunity that is worth more than a downpayment for a Toronto condo. 

[Kismet]

Are you single? Going to Harvard Law significantly increases the likelihood of securing a spouse with a family summer home in the Hamptons.

[epeeist]

@darthkitty I defer to others regarding current utility of a Harvard law degree in Canada. I do note that your topic description seems to say you 100% will work in Canada, but your post indicates you might be in the US or Canada.

Understandably some posters here have answered the first question (100% return to Canada to work), others the second (unsure whether you will be in Canada or the US).

[NowOrNever]

OP, if you don't go to Harvard you may regret in your whole life.

[LMP]

Harvard opens more doors. A career is a long and winding road and a Harvard JD gives you unmatched flexibility. 

I refuse to believe that a Harvard degree won't catch Canadian lawyers eyes. It just doesn't make any sense. 

And should you decide you would rather jump to consulting or academia you've got the best possible springboard (ok, maybe Yale is best). That's a huge advantage you won't be getting from UofT or UBC.

Moreover, Harvard is known world wide. Anywhere you go in life people will know the quality of your education. Desrved or not that reputation is potent and powerful. 

You only get one shot to do a JD. You've earned a tremendous opportunity, a chance to attend one of the best law schools in the world and emerge debt free. There aren't many who can say that. Don't pass up the chance. 

 

 

[Ryn]

13 minutes ago, LMP said:

I refuse to believe that a Harvard degree won't catch Canadian lawyers eyes. It just doesn't make any sense. 

It probably won't for biglaw partners, if that's OP's ultimate goal. I've been on hiring committees at a Bay firm and I can tell you that we wouldn't have cared if you went to Harvard or U of T. Rashabon is also at a biglaw firm and has done hiring. So I suspect his take on it is also fairly reliable.

That said, does Harvard present you opportunities U of T doesn't, like overall generally? Yeah I think that is probably true. But those opportunities may or may not be worth $200k. If they are, OP probably won't find out for a long time. It might take a decade for that sort of thing to pay off, because at the start of one's career, the ability to do the work has more bearing on success than the network provided by Harvard, particularly if OP is 100% looking to return to Canada.

Now if there's a desire to stay and practice in the US, like at least 50%, then Harvard is probably worth it over U of T. Again, especially if the aim is to go into US biglaw. While US firms do hire from U of T and Osgoode, it's not nearly as much as they do from HYS.

But that wasn't OP's original question, as others have observed, hence the advice against going to Harvard.

So perhaps OP should really decide whether they want to for sure stick around in Canada or not. Once that decision is made, the decision on where to go for law school will basically answer itself.

[Rashabon]

1 hour ago, LMP said:

I refuse to believe that a Harvard degree won't catch Canadian lawyers eyes. It just doesn't make any sense. 

 

Okay. I know that I made these comments, so let's be clear that I was referring to partners at large firms (as noted in my post). And having said that, let me know how it goes when you tell 99% of the equity partners on Bay Street that they should be impressed because you just graduated from Harvard.

A lot of the firms allow you to search by law school. You'll find more partners from Windsor than Harvard at most of them.