Is there any advantage to having a Harvard Law degree if I work in Canada?

[Electricity]

3 hours ago, Rashabon said:

 Harvard doesn't have magical training that lets candidates hit the ground running faster.

Sure, but all I was saying is that anyone in charge of hiring might see admission into one of the most competitive programs to exist as a decent indicator that they'll hit the ground running just fine on their own. 

3 hours ago, Rashabon said:

If you think that they are going to roll over impressed that a candidate went to Harvard, you're out of your mind.

19 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

let me know how it goes when you tell 99% of the equity partners on Bay Street that they should be impressed because you just graduated from Harvard.

The claim is that Harvard might give OP a leg up, not that it'll gain them automatic entry into whichever firm they want or that partners will be begging at their feet. 

 

20 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

A lot of the firms allow you to search by law school. You'll find more partners from Windsor than Harvard at most of them.

There's probably 20x the amount of Windsor-educated lawyers in the Canadian legal market. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

11 minutes ago, Electricity said:

Sure, but all I was saying is that anyone in charge of hiring might see admission into one of the most competitive programs to exist as a decent indicator that they'll hit the ground running just fine on their own.

You don't need to be wicked smaht to do this job. It's relatively easy. Run of the mill U-of-T-admission smart will do just fine. 

[mjslava]

2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You don't need to be wicked smaht to do this job. It's relatively easy. Run of the mill U-of-T-admission smart will do just fine. 

Heretofore..

[JackoMcSnacko]

Op, you should note that there are people who answered your question directly with good advice, and there are others who offered advice without answering your question.  Take note when considering the responses in this thread. 

Anyhow, the answer is no, Harvard will not give you a material advantage in Canada.  

[Lawstudents20202020]

53 minutes ago, Electricity said:

Sure, but all I was saying is that anyone in charge of hiring might see admission into one of the most competitive programs to exist as a decent indicator that they'll hit the ground running just fine on their own. 

The claim is that Harvard might give OP a leg up, not that it'll gain them automatic entry into whichever firm they want or that partners will be begging at their feet. 

 

There's probably 20x the amount of Windsor-educated lawyers in the Canadian legal market. 

A very important skill of a lawyer is to know what is within your expertise and when to defer to others. 

[qsizzle]

Hey, I would try and get your LSAT to 185 and your gpa to 102% and apply elsewhere.

Harvard is the best law school on earth, but by bumping those stats up to my suggestions you'll meet the medians for Mars University Law which is the best in the galaxy. Then you'll be much better set for Canadian law practice.

Edited March 25, 2022 by qsizzle

[Electricity]

57 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You don't need to be wicked smaht to do this job. It's relatively easy. Run of the mill U-of-T-admission smart will do just fine. 

20 minutes ago, Lawstudents20202020 said:

A very important skill of a lawyer is to know what is within your expertise and when to defer to others. 

Fine, fine. Deference to @Rashabon and anyone else on Bay Street. I'm just surprised to learn HYS provides no discernible benefit in Canadian big law. 

Best of luck in your decision, OP. 

[Diplock]

I've replied in a limited fashion to these questions before. But before I do, it's always important to review the premise. When you bring up Harvard, or any other big U.S. name, you'll inevitably get some current and recent students, and even a few others, basically jizzing all over their computer screens at the mere idea of it. All that prestige just gets them hot beyond words. But they lose sight of the fact that a significant slice of the students who are in fact in U of T or other highly competitive schools in Canada could have competed in the same range also. The difference between a top U.S. degree and a highly competitive applicant who chooses to stay in Canada isn't what people imagines it is. Which is why people who know that - including anyone who recruits at highly competitive employers in Canada - just aren't as impressed at the difference as students are on Canlaw.ca.

All that said, here's my actual advice. Whether you're taking on debt or spending money which could, unavoidably, be spent on something else if not on this, you've got to ask the same question. What kind of degree am I paying for and how do I intend to use it? Unavoidably, at an early stage in your career, your answer may change. But you should still answer the question as best you can. Otherwise, it's like buying a car and thinking "even though I drive in the city right now I might move to a farm one day, so clearly I need a giant ass truck just in case." It's true you can always pay for more and more of something and tell yourself you're covering the "just in case" but when that never materializes, the fact remains that you've wasted a lot of money as well as, in this case, some amount of time.

There are unquestionably places Harvard would give you an advantage worth having. Academia for one. Probably BigLaw in Canada also. I appreciate you're getting a nuanced discussion about that from people who know better than I do, but let's agree that "leg up" is a flexible concept, and it's an advantage worth having, it's just a question of how much it's worth. In my area of practice, by contrast, the advantage is well-nigh worthless. If you want to practice criminal law, you'll go years between anyone asking, knowing, or caring where you went to law school. You'd have to tattoo it on your forehead to have anyone notice often enough for it to even have a chance of influencing anything. So consider that proof of the basic point I'm trying to make. The question isn't "will it make a difference" the question is "will it make a difference for whatever it is you want to do." Which requires you to answer the question. What is that?!?

I'll just remind everyone of an issue all you would-be advisors should keep in mind, especially as you slather on the "when in doubt, go big" advice. Choices in this profession - including choice of law school - don't only constrain future decisions in the profession as one progresses but also drive them. In other words, once you've gone to Harvard, or even U of T, the environment you place yourself into there tends to push you further down the road in certain directions. It starts with "might as well go here because it'll keep my options open down the road" and continues with "now that I've gone here and have access to big name firms, I should start at one to keep my options open" and it continues like that indefinitely if you let it. You can build an entire career on keeping your options open and never realize that in doing so you've never once consulted your own desires or ambitions about what you really want to do now instead of trying to ensure you can do it some day in the future. And then it's too late. So what the hell was the point? And this is, indeed, why so many ostensibly successful people in law are also so unhappy.

You need to get used to starting with the most important question of all - what do I want to do - and make choices based on that. Don't make choices based on what others would do in your position, or even on what you might want to do in the future, just in case. Decide now, as best you can, and go from there. Once you actually know what you want to do with your law degree, the question of whether Harvard, U of T, or other will make a lot more sense and be easier to answer. Right now, the discussion you've generated isn't about you at all, which is exactly the reason it can't settle on a reasonable answer.

Good luck, in all events.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Diplock

[easttowest]

When I see HYS candidates on our call lists my first thought is “what went wrong that they’re here?” So it’s almost a red flag for me, at a sister or sister-type firm in Toronto. 

[WyattDerp]

17 hours ago, LMP said:

I refuse to believe that a Harvard degree won't catch Canadian lawyers eyes. It just doesn't make any sense. 

21 minutes ago, easttowest said:

When I see HYS candidates on our call lists my first thought is “what went wrong that they’re here?” So it’s almost a red flag for me, at a sister or sister-type firm in Toronto. 

Our firm has actually had several bad experiences with hiring people straight out of T6 (including Harvard) and has stopped doing so entirely.

Usually the ones coming back to Canada directly after graduation are......not at the top of their class. The partners know this and would much rather get someone in the top 10-15% from Windsor that they don't have to worry about.  

Its a lot easier to come back after a few years at US BigLaw (after you have proved you aren't useless) but then you have to ask whether a 50% pay cut and the NCAs are worth it.

[CheeseToast]

33 minutes ago, WyattDerp said:

Its a lot easier to come back after a few years at US BigLaw (after you have proved you aren't useless) but then you have to ask whether a 50% pay cut and the NCAs are worth it.

I can't imagine that someone who will come out of Harvard law debt free has any desire to slog it on in American or Canadian Biglaw for anywhere near 5 years. Just my 2 cents based on those I know whose parents wouldn't bat an eyelash at dropping ~300k USD on a US law degree. 

 

[easttowest]

18 minutes ago, CheeseToast said:

I can't imagine that someone who will come out of Harvard law debt free has any desire to slog it on in American or Canadian Biglaw for anywhere near 5 years. Just my 2 cents based on those I know whose parents wouldn't bat an eyelash at dropping ~300k USD on a US law degree. 

 

What are you talking about? All kinds of people work in big law and some are even there on purpose.

 

[CheeseToast]

17 minutes ago, easttowest said:

What are you talking about? All kinds of people work in big law and some are even there on purpose.

 

38 minutes ago, CheeseToast said:

just my 2 cents based on those I know

I don't disagree that there are many people with family money in biglaw.

[GreyDude]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:29 AM, Diplock said:

You can build an entire career on keeping your options open and never realize that in doing so you've never once consulted your own desires or ambitions about what you really want to do now instead of trying to ensure you can do it some day in the future. And then it's too late. So what the hell was the point? And this is, indeed, why so many ostensibly successful people in law are also so unhappy.

You need to get used to starting with the most important question of all - what do I want to do - and make choices based on that. Don't make choices based on what others would do in your position, or even on what you might want to do in the future, just in case. Decide now, as best you can, and go from there.

This looks like wise and excellent advice that I hope many will heed. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by GreyDude